Enfield interest

Regarding which rifles have which sights...... this is going to be very short, but it either must be very short, or an entire book; there is no middle ground.

The first LEE Rifle came out in 1879, built in .433 and .45-70. It is the ancestor of them ALL. Bolt action, magazine fed, open sights.

The British bought 3 of the early rifles, spent 9 years working with them, adopted the LEE Rifle with an 8-shot Magazine, in .303 calibre, open sights, Metford barrel, late in 1888.

1895 this rifle modified to use an Enfield-rifled barrel because the Metford barrels were burning-out with the hot Cordite powder. Also open sights.

1901 the first SHORT Lee-Enfield rifle built, experimented with until finally standardised in 1910: .303, bolt action, 10-shot magazine, open sights, the standard rifle of WW1, made in 6 factories with 7 names. (National and Standard were the same plant: ugly story there.) Production version was the Mark III and III*.

1908 a very few CONVERTED rifles were rebuilt, called the SMLE CONVERTED MARK IV. Rare, rare, rare. Built from old pre-1901 rifles with new wood and new dates. A vry few served until the end of WW2!

1922/24 a few thousand IMPROVED rifles built, called the SMLE Mark V. FIRST aperture sights here. Rare and Expensive!

1927: a NEW SYSTEM of naming the rifles came out. Anything pre-1902 became obsolete.
ALL SMLE rifles in .303 became Rifle Number 1.
ALL SMLE rifles in .22 became Rifle Number 2.
ALL P-'14 rifles became Rifle Number 3.

Experimenting continued with the Rifle Number 1, Mark VI, which was built with a good-quality APERTURE SIGHT (at last!).

1931 THREADS on the Rifle Number 1 Mark VI are CHANGED to BA THREADS and the rifle is ADOPTED as the Rifle Number 4, Mark 1. THIS WAS TO BECOME THE PRODUCTION RIFLE OF WW2. India and Australia continue production of the older type rifle because they do not have the tooling to make the new rifle (another ugly story here). Number 4 Mark 1 goes into toolroom production at Enfield, only a very few thousand built by the time the SHTF in 1939.

Hitler over-runs Europe in 1939/40. Britain alone, PAAAAAANIC button pushed and held down. Enfield CANNOT MAKE the new rifle: too many OTHER projects. BSA builds a new factory at SHIRLEY, Gummint factories at FAZAKERLEY and MALTBY, SAVAGE (in the USA) takes out a massive contract, CANADA builds giant factory at LONG BRANCH (Toronto) and massive production begins at last. About 7 million Number 4 Rifles are produced but don't start getting into the hands of the troops until late 1941. North African War is fought with the old rifles, the Number 1s; Number 4s are used for the INVASION OF EUROPE.

NEW .22 rifles are developed, 2 types, both called NUMBER 7, a British and a Canadian type.

AFTER the War, the Lee-Enfield continues in slow production until the FN-FAL (which FREE Canadians are no longer allowed to shoot) becomes the issue rifle. Number 8 and Number 9 Lee-Enfields, L-39 and L-42 are made as Match and Sniping rifles into the 1960s. PAKISTAN buys a whole Number 4 FACTORY from England and sets up production. The Indian factory at Ishapore (established about 1912) continues production on the old Number 1 Rifle, Australia makes the last of its Number 1 Rifles at Lithgow.

This is NOT COMPLETE. COMPLETE would require several books. This is an introduction.

You want a good Lee-Enfield rifle with aperture sights, you are looking for a Number 4 Rifle. They have 6 butt lengths, 6 or 7 rear sights, Barrels with 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 grooves, early ones (the majority) have unhung triggers, late ones (and conversions) have hung triggers, they have 2 different bolt releases..... and they are ALL GOOD and the parts change about with wonderful ease. Get a rear sight you don't like, change it out in 10 minutes. Get a butt length that doesn't fit, change it out: 10 minutes.

FINEST BOLT COMBAT RIFLE EVER BUILT.

And that includes the 1903A3 and the Kar 98k.

Hope this helps.
 
smellie that helps a whole bunch I appreciate you taking the time to give me and I am sure others the readers digest version, just the info I was looking for.
 
Yep milsurps seem to breed like rabbits!!

I all started for me with an old enfield Sporter bought for almost nothing from a guy from work!! I shot the he'll out of it and then cleaned it and put it in the safe, then I opened the safe door one day and a Ross mkIII fell out then , an Sks, turk Mauser, no4 longbranch, a m38 carcano, Finn captured Mosin......I think that's it? Oh and a snider!!!

I swear every time I open the safe an extra gun is in there!!
Ain't that the truth,beeeeeeeeeeen there,still there.Love it.
 
BOOKS on the Lee-Enfield series of rifles seem to be in two extremes: exhaustive and expensive, or superficial operating manuals.

The books by Australian Ian Skennerton are the first variety: utterly exhaustive, virtual gold-mines of detail. They are specialists' books for specialists and it is doubtful they ever will be surpassed. They are also rather on the expensive side. The disadvantage to them is that they really are not suitable for the neophyte, being TOO GOOD.

But there WAS an excellent INTRODUCTORY book, once pon a time. It was called THE LEE-ENFIELD RIFLE by Major E.G.B. Reynolds nd it came out in 1960, st which time the very last Match and Sniper variants still were being built. Reynolds had the advantage of being able to peruse the (literally) TONS of original documentation on these rifles, nearly all of which has been destroyed subsequently. He also had unlimited access to the Pattern Room collection, which holds more than FOUR HUNDRED Lee-Enfield variants, many of them built only as single rifles or as pairs of Test rifles, one of which was destroyed when the Test was completed. I saw this collection in 1976 and it was utterly boggling to behold. Reynolds' book traces the rifle from its first development, through to the end, and throws in a terrific chapter on the development of the P-'13/'14 series. It is very clearly written, the information compressed in that unique style which only the BEST military writers display. It has ben out of print for mny yrs and, today, counts as rare and expensive..... IF you can find a copy at all.

The book still is held by the Publishers in Copyright, so no reprint is possible unless done by the original Publisher. Right now, they still are gauging interest, so there IS a possibility.

But Badger Dog, our friend who posts the MOST interesting links, is a Lee-Enfield aficionado. He has mad a special arrangement with the Publisher of Reynolds' long-forgotten book whereby serious Students of these rifles may DOWNLOAD a FREE pdf of the entire book, given that they are Members over at milsurps dot com and that the downloaded pdf files are NOT sold. These are for Research only...... but they are FREE..... and you can't beat that. I have one myself: saves wear and tear on my original copy.

But it is the ONE book on the Lee-Enfield system of rifles which you can NOT do without.

Go get her!
 
Ain't that the truth,beeeeeeeeeeen there,still there.Love it.

I think that's what I love about this hobby, the shear amount of toys to be bought!!

Even if a guy was to just collect enfields he could literally buy 200 rifles and still not be done collecting.

My collecting is pretty scatter brained, I see a strange gun I but it. The best part is I seemed to be interested in guns that others don't want, which means I can afford to buy them!!

I must say to the OP, between my brother and I we pretty much have most of the bolt action rifles covered, I must say the lee Enfield is a different sort of animal. They're so well built, have a smooth action and really shoot well!

A lee Enfield is a must in EVERY collection!!
 
You could get a sportered rifle that still has an unmolested barreled action and replace the sportered/removed parts. That's how I got my 1941 Long Branch.
You will not save any money in the long run and it is a bit of work but I found it very enjoyable and you learn a lot along the way.
 
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