Transporting a pistol

[Pthagoraz]

this wallet thing is bs. I have too many things in my wallet to worry about permits.

Agreed! I did away with a wallet many years ago and converted to a money clip. Best decision I ever made.

No LEO is going to arrest you for following their orders. In this case, it's the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law no matter how you interpret it. If one did actually arrest someone for opening the case to get their papers I think they would be ridiculed by their peers for unnecessary paperwork. Police eat #### and sleep just like everyone else.

 

[BenL]

When I first commented on this thread this is what I said:
Never lock your PAL, ATT, or registration in with your firearms when transporting. Keep them somewhere you can get at them without opening any case that contains restricted firearms.
Now you tell me, how can you possibly get into any trouble with the law if you do that. Remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Locking your firearm related document in with restricted firearms while transporting is stupid, and it's just begging for possible complications, I will never understand why people would want to take that chance.
That's all that I have to say on this subject.

Ok I'll bite.

So what happens if you leave your home without the paperwork as you were in a bit of a rush to get to a match.

"Oh but Officer, I never carry them in my cases as I wouldn't want you to charge me with..."

 

[shawn]

Agreed! I did away with a wallet many years ago and converted to a money clip. Best decision I ever made.

No LEO is going to arrest you for following their orders. In this case, it's the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law no matter how you interpret it. If one did actually arrest someone for opening the case to get their papers I think they would be ridiculed by their peers for unnecessary paperwork. Police eat #### and sleep just like everyone else.

Read the thread.

It has nothing to do with the spirt of the law or peer pressure or with how rare unicorns are. They cant charge you for following their orders, it is in black and white in the criminal code and already posted in this thread.

Shawn

 

[Pthagoraz]

Uhmmm...and what are you arguing about? I was agreeing with you. Go figure.

 

[shawn]

Uhmmm...and what are you arguing about? I was agreeing with you. Go figure.

I wasn't arguing anything. Just pointing out that your statements are incorrect. This is the reason some people have issues with understanding the firearms act. Because people post up what they think or heard as absolute fact.

Shawn

 

[Toto]

When I first commented on this thread this is what I said:
Never lock your PAL, ATT, or registration in with your firearms when transporting. Keep them somewhere you can get at them without opening any case that contains restricted firearms.
Now you tell me, how can you possibly get into any trouble with the law if you do that. Remember that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Locking your firearm related document in with restricted firearms while transporting is stupid, and it's just begging for possible complications, I will never understand why people would want to take that chance.
That's all that I have to say on this subject.

LOL..... So, out of curiosity, what would you do if Mr. Police Officer wanted to match the serial numbers on your paper work to the guns in your case? You going to tell him to follow you to the range?..... LOL

 

[heliwrench]

Why would you think you are violating transport laws by opening a gun case if ordered to by a cop???

That is like saying you are risking getting ticketed for driving without a license while you are there pulled over idling you car on the side of the highway while the cop has your DL in his car running your info!

 

[plinker 777]

Why would you think you are violating transport laws by opening a gun case if ordered to by a cop???

That is like saying you are risking getting ticketed for driving without a license while you are there pulled over idling you car on the side of the highway while the cop has your DL in his car running your info!

For the WIN!!!

 

[S.J.]

No its not, let me help you remember:

Just a quick update for your information.
After reading all your BS on this subject, I called the Canadian Firearms Program, and spoke to the people who are charged with enforcing all Firearm laws in Canada, the RCMP. After asking to speak to someone that can help me with information on transporting restricted and prohibited firearms in Canada, they connected me to what they said was the right department. After asking my questions about having my documents locked in a case with my restricted and or prohibited firearms while being transported, the Officer told me that I would be well advised to keep my documents somewhere I can get to them without opening the case containing restricted and or prohibited firearms. After he told me this, I asked him to please transfer me to his supervisor. When talking to the supervisor I got the same answer as I got from the first person. However, the supervisor advised me to also call my local CFO to see what their position is regarding this matter. Well, here is the kicker bro. After calling the Ontario CFO and asking my question regarding this matter, I was told to keep my documents where I can get at them without opening a case containing restricted and or prohibited firearms if the Police want to see them.
Also, the Ontario CFO told me that, the Police or I can not open that case on the side of the road, even if I gave him or her the key to the case. My next question was, what would or could happen if I faced this situation?, they told me that it would be entirely up to the Police Officer, he or she could give you up to 24hrs to produce your documents, or if they had any reason to think that something may not be right, they could take the case until you can prove that all is ligit.
While the law may be different in Bumf**k Saskachewan, but I doubt it very much, quit spreading your BS on this forum for all to see.
Does any of the above sound familiar to you?, this is what I have been saying all along.
Know the law, and act accordingly, save your ass.














Almost every statement you said is incoorrect and yet you still are trying to pass them off as the correct answer. Just admit it, you have no clue. There is nothing wrong with that, just stop trying to convinve people you do.

Also you have yet to show a single source to prove your case or refute the sections of the CC I posted. I would suggest that until you can back up your BS, you stop posting. You can try and back peddal all you want but your posts don't lie, and you can edit them all you want now as they have been quoteed and will not change.

Shawn

Just a quick update for your information.
After reading all your BS on this subject, I called the Canadian Firearms Program, and spoke to the people who are charged with enforcing all Firearm laws in Canada, the RCMP. After asking to speak to someone that can help me with information on transporting restricted and prohibited firearms in Canada, they connected me to what they said was the right department. After asking my questions about having my documents locked in a case with my restricted and or prohibited firearms while being transported, the Officer told me that I would be well advised to keep my documents somewhere I can get to them without opening the case containing restricted and or prohibited firearms. After he told me this, I asked him to please transfer me to his supervisor. When talking to the supervisor I got the same answer as I got from the first person. However, the supervisor advised me to also call my local CFO to see what their position is regarding this matter. Well, here is the kicker bro. After calling the Ontario CFO and asking my question regarding this matter, I was told to keep my documents where I can get at them without opening a case containing restricted and or prohibited firearms if the Police want to see them.
Also, the Ontario CFO told me that, the Police or I can not open that case on the side of the road, even if I gave him or her the key to the case. My next question was, what would or could happen if I faced this situation?, they told me that it would be entirely up to the Police Officer, he or she could give you up to 24hrs to produce your documents, or if they had any reason to think that something may not be right, they could take the case until you can prove that all is ligit.
While the law may be different in Bumf**k Saskachewan, but I doubt it very much, quit spreading your BS on this forum for all to see.
Does any of the above sound familiar to you?, this is what I have been saying all along.
Know the law, and act accordingly, save your ass.
Ps:
All my statements that you quoted me on were correct.

 

[S.J.]

Why would you think you are violating transport laws by opening a gun case if ordered to by a cop???

That is like saying you are risking getting ticketed for driving without a license while you are there pulled over idling you car on the side of the highway while the cop has your DL in his car running your info!

According to the Ontario CFO the Police in Ontario can not open that case, nor will they order you to do so. What could be the reason for that you may ask. Could the reason be that the Federal law clearly states that all restricted and prohibited firearms must be trigger locked, and locked into a case while being transported?. That would make sense to me. Provincial or local Police can not change or override a Federal law that clearly states that the case must be locked. At least not without braking that law.

 

[shawn]

SNIP for BS.

Cool story bro, but how about you call them back and ask the questions you made statements of fact about.

No one said it wasn't a good idea to keep you documents in another location. Just that you BS warmongering statement of fact we incorrect.

SO are you going to call them back and ask the actual questions, you seem to have a reading comprehension isssue you need to re-read the thread. Or don't worry about it I will help you, specifically these questions:

if you get stopped by the Cops on your way to the range you'll be up a creek without a paddle. You will not be able to prove that you have an ATT, PAL, or registration, because you can not open the case to get at them.

If you do, you are in violation of the transport laws. You can only open that case at your house or inside an approved shooting range.

The law says that you can not open a case containing restricted firearms while being transported from your home to the range, you must wait till you get to the range to open it.

If you can not produce the required documents without opening the case, they will seize them.

Because, even a cop can't open that case, he or she would have to be a firearm inspector to open that case

All of which had nothing to do with the BS you posted above. So go ahead an phone them back ask the real questions. Or I could phone them and ask questions that are completely unrelated and post it up as evidence for you BS statements of fact.

I know you have won this argument as you cant provide anything to support your position and you have fallen back on name calling. That is the sign of a pro debater lol lol lol lol

So let me know when you figure out what you talking about.

Shawn

 

[shawn]

According to the Ontario CFO the Police in Ontario can not open that case, nor will they order you to do so. What could be the reason for that you may ask. Could the reason be that the Federal law clearly states that all restricted and prohibited firearms must be trigger locked, and locked into a case while being transported?. That would make sense to me. Provincial or local Police can not change or override a Federal law that clearly states that the case must be locked. At least not without braking that law.

No where in your "story" did the CFO say that. Also federal law clearly states that it is not illegal to do it at the direction of a police officer.

Provincial or local Police can not change or override a Federal law that clearly states that the case must be locked. At least not without braking that law.

The only statement you make that is correct. Guess what this is federal law:

Person acting at direction of public officer
(10) A person who commits an act or omission that would otherwise constitute an offence is justified in committing it if

(a) a public officer directs him or her to commit that act or omission and the person believes on reasonable grounds that the public officer has the authority to give that direction; and
(b) he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the commission of that act or omission is for the purpose of assisting the public officer in the public officer’s law enforcement duties.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-9.html#docCont

Sorry bro but your still wrong no matter how many stories you make up lol

Shawn

 

[S.J.]

No where in your "story" did the CFO say that. Also federal law clearly states that it is not illegal to do it at the direction of a police officer.



The only statement you make that is correct. Guess what this is federal law:



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-9.html#docCont

Sorry bro but your still wrong no matter how many stories you make up lol

Shawn

Again, according to the Ontario CFO, a Police officer in Ontario can not open a locked case in transport, so how can he possibly order you to open it, I mean how slow are you?

 

[BenL]

Again, according to the Ontario CFO, a Police officer in Ontario can not open a locked case in transport, so how can he possibly order you to open it, I mean how slow are you?

Call your local police force and the OPP and see what answer you get.

If the LEO wants to see the inside of the case, let him have at it. He or she is doing their job.

Shawn has posted on more than one occasion the exact wording of the law but you chose to systemically ignore it.

 

[shawn]

Again, according to the Ontario CFO, a Police officer in Ontario can not open a locked case in transport, so how can he possibly order you to open it, I mean how slow are you?

How slow are you?

You even said it yourself, more than once:

Provincial or local Police can not change or override a Federal law that clearly

And federal law states:

Person acting at direction of public officer
(10) A person who commits an act or omission that would otherwise constitute an offence is justified in committing it if

(a) a public officer directs him or her to commit that act or omission and the person believes on reasonable grounds that the public officer has the authority to give that direction; and
(b) he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the commission of that act or omission is for the purpose of assisting the public officer in the public officer’s law enforcement duties.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-9.html#docCont

So which is it? The police have to follow the law or only the single section of the firearms act that has anything to do with you BS opinion?

Shawn

 

[Conte]

Oh wow. This thread got a bit off track, so I'm going to stick with giving good ideas to the OP.

I'll tell you tho', I keep my reg certs in my range bag. I used to keep my reg certs in the case.

I'll move different guns in the same case, and sometimes the same guns in different cases, I've found that juggling things around has caused me to forget my certs in my other case while at the range. Lucky I never had to produce them.

So, I just keep all my certs together in my range bag that is always the same, and always goes with me to the range. That way I know automatically I have whatever cert I need for whatever I have with me at the time, and I don't run the risk of forgetting them.

For the longest time I kept the ATT in the center console in my car. I only go to the range in the same car. I only need to ATT to go to the range, so I figured I might as well keep it in the car. It was super effective until I came up with the range bag idea, now the ATT lives in my range bag with my Certs.

On that note, I haven't looked at the things in months. I think I'll take a quick snoop thru' me bag and make sure everything is still in order.

 

[S.J.]

How slow are you?

You even said it yourself, more than once:



And federal law states:



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-9.html#docCont

So which is it? The police have to follow the law or only the single section of the firearms act that has anything to do with you BS opinion?

Shawn

I was under the impression that this thread was about weather or not you should luck your firearms related documents in with your restricted firearms while transporting from point A to point B. My home is in Ontario, so I have to live by what the Ontario CFO's rules and regulations are in connection with restricted firearms. When I called the Ontario CFO this morning they told me that I should not keep my restricted firearm documents locked in the case with the firearms while transporting, they said to keep them in a place within easy access in case the Police want to see them. My next question was, what if I give the key that opens the case to the Police Officer?, the answer was that it wouldn't do me any good because the Police can not open that case. My next question to the CFO was, what would happen if I would ever find myself in this situation?, the CFO's answer was that it would be entirely up to the Police officer as to what he should do. The Ontario CFO also went on to say that, if the Police officer did not suspect anything else wrong, he or she may give me up to 24hrs to produce the required documents.
That's a big if, if you ask me, so I will continue keeping my documents in my wallet as before.

 

[Spavel]

I was under the impression that this thread was about weather or not you should luck your firearms related documents in with your restricted firearms while transporting from point A to point B.

Sorry, but my original question was if I can transport both restricted and not restricted in the same rifle box. I got my answer, thank you all very much for that. I was not really asking if I should put my papers in the same case (I have them in the bag).
But, as I said, I got my answer and you are more than welcome to take this thread into any other discussion.

 

[Garand]

No problem at all as long as the appropriate locks are in place (trigger for restricteds and lock on the main case). I shoot cowboy and often take my lever gun, shotgun and pair of pistols in one large hard double rifle case. It gets kind of heavy, but convenient to have just one container.

Excellent way to carry all your main match firearms. If you want heavy, just try a double sided case holding 2 pistol caliber carbines, 2 shotguns and 4 handguns! Now that is heavy, mind you it doesn't take up that much room (compared to the wife's costumes )

 

[shawn]

I was under the impression that this thread was about weather or not you should luck your firearms related documents in with your restricted firearms while transporting from point A to point B.

Wouldn't be the first time you were wrong in this thread, and I will wager not the last. Not to mention the topic is not relevant to your statements of fact being wrong.

My home is in Ontario,

Great, thanks for sharing

When I called the Ontario CFO this morning they told me that I should not keep my restricted firearm documents locked in the case with the firearms while transporting, they said to keep them in a place within easy access in case the Police want to see them.

No one is arguing that is a good idea to do this. Its you BS about it being illegal and they will confiscate your guns if you do that I have an issue with.

My next question was, what if I give the key that opens the case to the Police Officer?, the answer was that it wouldn't do me any good because the Police can not open that case.

This is ambiguous, why cant they open it? Illegal search, search withour RPG? Unicorns may attack them? You are asking the wrong questions, and acting like the answers are proof you BS statements are right.

My next question to the CFO was, what would happen if I would ever find myself in this situation?, the CFO's answer was that it would be entirely up to the Police officer as to what he should do.

This is correct as long as it falls within the law. And again this is part of the law:

Person acting at direction of public officer
(10) A person who commits an act or omission that would otherwise constitute an offense is justified in committing it if

(a) a public officer directs him or her to commit that act or omission and the person believes on reasonable grounds that the public officer has the authority to give that direction; and
(b) he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the commission of that act or omission is for the purpose of assisting the public officer in the public officer’s law enforcement duties.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-9.html#docCont

Are you going to show us anything that negates that? Or are you still just going to pretend it doesn't exist?

The Ontario CFO also went on to say that, if the Police officer did not suspect anything else wrong, he or she may give me up to 24hrs to produce the required documents.
That's a big if, if you ask me, so I will continue keeping my documents in my wallet as before.

This is correct officer has discretion in how they handle things. That still doesn't make you BS statements any more true.

You were wrong , just man up and say so. You trying to prove your right without being able to back anything is just making you look like an idiot. Hows this for advice don't post statements of fact about the law, that you can not back up with legislation.

So go ahead and phone up the CFO again, you talked to Wyatt right?. Because if you didn't you talked to a secretary. And ask the real question to prove your case "Can someone be charged with a offense under the firearms act for doing something under the direction of a police officer?"

I will bet you $100 you don't get the answer you were hoping for.

Shawn