ejection pattern handloads vs factory

Avenida

Avenida

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Just looking for some help in regards to this issue I have been having since I started reloading.
I have put around 250/300 rounds of factory ammo through my MP9, all rounds were ejected with authority at 4 o'clock, the ammo used was blazer 115 and 124 gr weight RN bullet.
Now, I have been experimenting with WSF and CAMPRO bullets with not very much success.
All my handloads eject on my head and in head, glasses, chest, it's coming right back at me and not 4 o'clock like it does with my Blazer ammo (which seems to be very good).
My handloads are cycling very good, I have tested 100 yesterday with only 1 FTF.

My loads are: (124 GR RN LEAD data from HODGDON web site)

124 Copper Plater CAMPRO BULLETS (RN)
4.7 grs of WSF
CCI Primers
Blazer Brass
1.120 COL

I noticed that the the primers strikes are softer in comparison to the Factory ammo, Crimp is not the problem since the crimp used is the same as Factory ammo, I use very light crimp, just to remove the bell. So this could be a sign of overpressure?

So, I have been told to load plated bullets to LEAD specifications, but I am not sure whether I have reached a max load or I could go up a bit more, since the ejection pattern on my face might indicate a softer load, or softer than Blazers.

What is your experience loading copper plated bullets? Do you use LEAD data or FMJ?
Why my handloads are ejecting on my face while Blazer factory ammo is not?

Cheers!
 
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I load all my plated to FMJ levels including magnums, I haven't yet noticed any issues with doing that

My lighter loads for my glock did the same thing, but more powder has fixed that for the most part.
 
are you loading max FMJ load for plated or something in between? I am about to reaload 100 now and want to keep all my limbs. lol
 
Well for your powder/bullet combo the max lead is 4.7gr and for fmj it's 5.3gr. So I would go to 5gr without much concern, you may want to try 4.8, 4.9, 5.0 etc.

Your other option if the brass still hits you in the head is to change powders. I believe tight group is good for lighter bullets, I use that or w231/hp38

But I don't go over max data ever, or haven't had any reason to yet.
 
It sounds like the spent cases are barely making it out of the ejection port. I would try increasing the powder charge to 5.0 or 5.3 grains, per Hodgdon's data for 125 grain FMJ.

Lead and (to a lesser extent) plated bullets will be pushed down the barrel with less resistance than jacketed bullets. A given powder charge will normally produce lower pressures with a plated or lead bullet than with a jacketed bullet.
 
Lead bullets tend to leave a layer of lead on the bore if they move to fast, that's why they are lubricated. I'm not an expert by any means, but I believe the friction melts some of the lead an it gets left behind in the bore.
 
"...ejection pattern handloads..." No such thing.
"...my handloads eject on..." That's about the ejector. Has nothing to do with reloading. This 9mm?
"...4.7 grs of WSF..." That's the minimum for a 124 gr jacketed RN and Max for a cast bullet. Plated bullets are loaded using cast bullet data. You need to start over and work up the load, after reading your manual.
 
Sunray, I know the minimum for FMJ and LEAD. Thank you for your very helpful post! I hope the other 16,711 post were as useful as the one you just posted.

I consider myself smarter than Forrest Gump, and I have been developing this load for 1 week now, all the way up from 4.3 which is the min load for lead... so please, now that you took the time to post something, could you go IN DEPTH about why do you think I have to start over.

I have tried all powder charges for LEAD for this bullet, none of them work properly.
4.7 which is the maximum for lead, does not cycle the gun reliably, some times it ejects, some times it does not, some time it doesn't lock the slide after the last shot. The load needs more Juice? or should I ask Lt. Dan?

4.3 doesn't cycle the gun nor ejects.
4.7 ejects all over my head and chest, sometimes does not eject, sometimes it does, it is not consistent not reliable.
4.8 ejects, there is no failures, still ejecting on my face, arms, head, face, glasses, VERY CONSISTENTLY = VERY ANNOYING!
4.9 Works better, almost ejecting out of the way but 1 out 3 will eject on my shoulder/head.
5.0 eject 5 o'clock less than 1 feet away from me (I can live with that)

I have tried today, 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 grains, which 5.0 grains being the BEST and the ejecting pattern is more similar to a Factory rounds although they do not go as far, factory rounds seems to eject 4 o'clock and 3-5 feet away from me, which is very nice and easy to find my brass.

There is evidence that some plated bullets need to be loaded between LEAD and FMJ. Like Berrie's bullets: (please see the link below)
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

Now, honestly, post like yours are confusing, do not help AT ALL and sounded almost assholish, so in the case you want to help, you are welcome to post and thank you very much but if you want to troll this post, please go back to the woods.
Cheers!
 
Avenida said:
Sunray, I know the minimum for FMJ and LEAD. Thank you for your very helpful post! I hope the other 16,711 post were as useful as the one you just posted.

I consider myself smarter than Forrest Gump, and I have been developing this load for 1 week now, all the way up from 4.3 which is the min load for lead... so please, now that you took the time to post something, could you go IN DEPTH about why do you think I have to start over.

I have tried all powder charges for LEAD for this bullet, none of them work properly.
4.7 which is the maximum for lead, does not cycle the gun reliably, some times it ejects, some times it does not, some time it doesn't lock the slide after the last shot. The load needs more Juice? or should I ask Lt. Dan?

4.3 doesn't cycle the gun nor ejects.
4.7 ejects all over my head and chest, sometimes does not eject, sometimes it does, it is not consistent not reliable.
4.8 ejects, there is no failures, still ejecting on my face, arms, head, face, glasses, VERY CONSISTENTLY = VERY ANNOYING!
4.9 Works better, almost ejecting out of the way but 1 out 3 will eject on my shoulder/head.
5.0 eject 5 o'clock less than 1 feet away from me (I can live with that)

I have tried today, 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 grains, which 5.0 grains being the BEST and the ejecting pattern is more similar to a Factory rounds although they do not go as far, factory rounds seems to eject 4 o'clock and 3-5 feet away from me, which is very nice and easy to find my brass.

There is evidence that some plated bullets need to be loaded between LEAD and FMJ. Like Berrie's bullets: (please see the link below)
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

Now, honestly, post like yours are confusing, do not help AT ALL and sounded almost assholish, so in the case you want to help, you are welcome to post and thank you very much but if you want to troll this post, please go back to the woods.
Cheers!
Click to expand...
How was accuracy with the lower charges? With mine it was more accurate, but a annoying to get hit with brass. But accuracy was still more accurate then me at the higher loads

I would try 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 and see how those are accuracy wise. If none of those are acceptable I would really look at a different powder.

EDIT: that is assuming pressure signs aren't appearing.
 
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I will give 5.1,2 and 3 a try tomorrow afternoon and I will let you know, accuracy was pretty much the same with 5.0 as it was with 4.7, very accurate actually. I got a group of 2 inches at 10 yards, standing up hand held.
There wasn't any pressure signs, nothing obvious at least, I will try those charges tomorrow and if nothing changes I might settle with 4.9/5 for this powder.
I am thinking of buying some FMJ to give them a try with this powder and see what happens, I am not very impressed with the plated bullets.
 
If you can get a chronograph that would make things a lot easier when working up loads, a hard cast lead bullet probably won't clog up your barrel and if you can cast your own they are a lot cheaper than buying them.
If you can't get a chronograph try loading factory and your reloads alternately in the mag and see what the difference is in recoil, this will give you an idea of how close to factory velocity your reloads are.
 
I am just about to start shooting my SR9 with WSF, CCI primers, and bulk plated bullets. I have also loaded to only lead data so it should be interesting to see what velocities I am getting with the plated.

Will post my Chrony data at the end of the day with the velocities.
 
That would be great. I'll see if I can find a chrony at the range I can borrow so throw a couple numbers in.
 
Avenida said:
Interesting, but why the books suggest less powder for lead then?
Click to expand...

-The published data may be based on what the developers found gave best accuracy and/or least leading.
-Some data is based on soft swaged bullets (e.g. hornady or Speer) rather than hard cast.
-Sometimes, it takes less powder to get the desired velocity.
 
Thanks! this is getting very interesting. One of my buddies at the range lend me a crono but I didn't have time to set it up today. I will take some measurements this week and go from there.
 
Hi Avenida,

Well, today was not a good Chrony day. High winds and continuously changing cloud cover lead to useless readings.

Anyway, I ran into the same issues that you did. 4gr WSF would not function. 4.5grns worked very well for precision (1.5" at 10 yards) and functioned well but brass ejection was 2' as compared to 10' with factory. At least mine is not hitting me in the head!

Hopefully I can get out again this weekend and the weather will be more conducive to the Chrony.
 
For reference, Use FMJ load data for CAM-PRO. Some people think you need lead data for plated bullets. This might be true for other brands, but CAM-PRO says right on their website and FAQ that you can push their bullets to full FMJ load velocities.

I've been running 44mag Cam-Pro for years loaded to proper full power 44 mag charges and have had no problems. They make for cheap shooting in my D'Eagle.

Meanwhile, as you figured out already, yeah, you load will effect your ejection. The different slide velocity during cycling will cause the case to get kicked out in different directions. I've used lots of Bullzeye with Cam-Pro's in my M&P9 and it seems to have enough snap to send the cases in a favorable direction even with lower charges. Naturally it's a much faster burning powder.

WSF is actually on the pretty slow end of the burn speed spectrum for the 9mm. It'd only use it if I wanted full power loads, maybe to simulate factory performance. Otherwise, when you're done your WSF, I'd recommend a faster powder for making light plinking/range loads. It'll be much easier to work up the kinds of loads you want while getting a favorable ejection angle.
 
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