How to pick a 1911 - what makes one stand out amongst the others?

FightingIrish

FightingIrish

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So I'm looking at getting a 1911. I don't know anything about them. Best brand? Taurus, Colt, Ruger, Sig, Kimber? What makes one stand out more? They're very nice looking guns, a lot of cheap looking Norinco's out there too...

Come on people - sway me to one and tell me why you feel that way.

All the advice is appreciated!

Irish.
 
I just bought my very first 1911 I went with the ruger sr1911 because of its price point, stainless steel finish and American made features. I was looking at higher priced 1911's and found many i looked at had reliability issues or needed a break in period. If I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars on a handgun I would expect it working well right out of the box and that it is backed fully by its manufacturer incase of issues. These were all selling points of the ruger sr1911!

If I were you I would look at a few 1911's which you like the look of then read some buyer reviews and check what gun magazines or online reviewers have said about it. Can am has a great deal on the norinco 1911 and on the ruger sr1911, both are less than 1000 and come with 1000 rounds!

Just my two cents, I'm sure others will have more to say
 
One of the more knowledgeable shooters on here posted this a week or so ago;

"If you want a quality 1911 for middle-range money, start by looking at Colt and Springfield, or, if they interest you, you could consider an STI. Conceivably the S&W E-series, which had some early indications of being a quality piece, but which seems to have fallen prey to S&W's usual disorder of coming up with an awesome idea, then letting the accountants make all the decisions until they wreck it. Not that the E-series is wrecked, but the people I know who are heavily in to 1911s for duty use went from "hopeful" to "skeptical" about six or eight months back.


Anyway, that is pretty much a complete list of entry-level 1911s I would be prepared to count on without doing a lot of work. And yes, I am familiar with the other big names making 1911s. I haven't forgotten anyone. If I didn't mention them, it's because I wouldn't bet on them.

On the cheap I would get a Norinco or RIA. But I would expect to have to get someone with a lot of experience to tune the gun. Fortunately in my case that's me and I work pro bono for me whenever I need it."

That was Misanthropist - an extremely knowledgeable guy. (I hope he's OK with the quote here - but it is very solid advice)
 
Most people don't have the skill to tell much about a 1911 beyond the basic function tests. You can feel the tightness of the barrel lockup by feeling for play on the hood, and I find racking them slowly usually gives me some insight in to the barrel linkage but you need to have felt a bunch to tell much of anything.

Consequently the easiest thing for most people to do is to start with companies with a statistical track record of building dependable guns:



Colt

Springfield





There are others to consider, but that's a complete list of companies building guns around the $1200 mark that I would actually bank on. You can get better guns but the price goes up significantly, as do the wait times in most cases. You can also get decent guns that I wouldn't bet my life on but that should serve for most purposes, and I would put the STI Trojan and up and the S&W E series in that category.

Or you can get entry level guns with little to no hand fitting, built from reverse-engineered specs. Some companies do this well. For an entry level 1911 I like the Ruger. It has some decent features for the buck.

The SIG 1911s are difficult to predict. The first ones were apocalyptically bad. Then they brought in a bunch of good 1911 builders and bought high-quality parts and built some really nice ones. Then they got rid of those builders and figured they'd learned how to do it right on their own. Then they built a bunch of guns that ranged from pretty good to really poor. Then they got better at building the guns...and started cheaping out on parts. Who knows what they're doing now...I have not heard any recent SIGs that will reliably pass the no mag extraction/ejection test (which is not surprising considering how high they put their external extractor...)

Finally you can get CHEAP 1911s and just roll the dice completely, or rebuild them totally. I am currently building a 1911 on a Norinco frame and slide, because I find their frames and slides to be excellent. I am not sure about the barrels yet. I do not like their small parts and I would not trust a chinese spring to close a pez dispenser, let alone stand up to the often pretty punishing duty cycles of 1911s.

The Philippino guns are usually fitted together better than the Chinese guns, but usually have cast frames and slides which probably doesn't matter but should bug a purist. Of course the Ruger is a cast frame too (a Caspian, really) and so are most if not all of the available Springfields.


If I were allocating funds, here is how it would go:

Broke: Norinco + ammo from Canam
Tight: Ruger + ammo from Canam
Cheque to cheque: STI Trojan
Stably employed: Colt XSE or similar
Major promotion: Colt 01970CY
President of the company: Wilson
Own the company and it's going public: Heirloom
 
misanthropist (and enefgee) say pretty much all that needs to be said lol.

My opinion... first of all it all depends on budget. If you're absolutely set on a 1911 but only have $500 to spend, that budget will make the decision for you. This needs to be decided first otherwise it's like asking "what vehicle should I buy?" Can be a Toyota Yaris or a Bugatti Veyron unless you add some more details.

Pretty much any of the Big 4 of the customs (in order for me: Wilson, Nighthawk, Baer, Brown) are good to go if you got the $3000-5000 to drop.

Of the "higher end" "factory" ones (ballpark $1000-1700), it's gotta be Colt, Springfield, or STI (which I think is just as worthy as Colt or Springfield). I love Colts, they will hold their value, and there are very few complaints and they use high quality parts for everything... but I personally have a really big problem with a 1911 that is near $2000 and there is no freaking front strap checkering. I will inherit a Colt 1911 from my father someday but I would not spend my money on one as I'd rather go Springer or STI. Honourable mention to the S&W E Series.

Kimbers are very pretty but have a bad rep (undeserved in my humble opinion). A very large number of models to choose from between about $900-1700.

I personally feel the Rock Islands and Ruger SR1911 are good choices for the ~$700 range.

I hear many good things about the SAM and they are affordable as well.

I personally do not like SIG 1911s at all. FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT I HAVE SEEN WITH MY OWN TWO EYES DIRECTLY the SIGs have far more issues than Kimbers and yet Kimbers are what gets the bad rep. There are many SIG 1911 fans though.
 
I had a Taurus and I didn't have any problems with it but for me, Taurus kinda fits into the bracket of... pay a tiny bit more and get something much better or save some money and get something nearly as good.

The only thing I have to add is that considering the cost to shoot .45 (you weren't thinking of a 1911 in any other calibre, were you? :p), you should save your pennies and get something nice. I see no reason to save $200 and get a lesser 1911 when the cost of feeding could easily be more than that per month if you shoot often. Shooting .45 is kinda like driving a car. You may spend $5000 or $6000 on a car but that $1000 difference won't even cover insurance for the year lol (in BC anyway).

I believe the CanAm Norinco deal is still on which I would recommend. A 1911 requires more end user maintenance and knowledge than any other modern handgun so it's nice to have a beater to learn on. Akin to getting a beater as a first car then learning everything about cars on it rather than getting a license and buying a Ferrari right away then ruining it because you don't really know anything about driving yet.
 
if your in the market for a 1911. I feel for you.
when I got my first one, I wrote down all the features that it had to have, then the features that I could live with out, ,then the features that I didn't want .
then I looked at every brand out there , then sorted by price, to find the one, I new id be happy with .
I happily bought the Kimber tactical Custom II .
For the record the only thing I don't care for on the gun is the( front slide serrations ).
If I was going to buy a new one today it would either be a.
Colt XSE or Kimber Tactical Custom II HD .
Its all up to you .
If you like the classic look, then go that route.
if you want a souped up Race gun then go that route.
For me, my 1911 had to have the front strap, back strap, full length guide rod, Stainless Barrel Bushing, Novac style fixed combat sights, Lowered and flared Ejecton port .
With the Kimber I got all that Plus the sights glow in the dark, a full Mag well, Combat Hammer Skeletonized trigger, and more all for a very good price compaired to the competition.
You don't need all that . just be aware of the options that are there and try to find the one that has all the things you want because upgrades after the fact are very expensive .
 
I will disagree slightly with the posters above. Of the 4 colts i've sold, three have came back in less then a month, one sheared the slide stop off, one had the sights fall off, and the third had the saftey so poorly fitted it was borderline non functional. Two of the three went back to colt, and are still there....the one that lost the sights, we replaced the sights with sights from one of our stock guns, (colts direction) and sent THAT gun back for replacement. Colts look pretty............

The best put together 1911's i'm seeing (for a price point) these days are the remingtons. The enhanced model is the best value dollar for dollar, but the two "carry models" we brought in have the tightest slide to frame fit i've seen on a non custom shop 1911. Make kimbers twice their value look junky IMHO.

I like springfields, still have a loaded model

The ruger sr1911 is a good gun, attractive, but fit tends to be variable. That said, they still shoot well. Slide to frame fit has less effect to accuracy then almost any other fit variable in the model. but if you don't like 1911 rattle, the ruger may not be for you.

STI makes a great gun for a little more money

The norc...very good gun, FOR THE PRICE. less the half of what the ruger costs. You get more sharp edges, and the mags, welll, just recycle them and buy good mags...after that, you'll have a good shooter untill you either want to upgrade or do home custom work, with is the joy of norcs.

If your going to drop big money, i'd take Les Baur, Wilson or Ed Brown long before i'd purchase a night hawk. THe hawks run really well, shoot really well and are reliable, but for that money, i don't want to look at machining marks inside the slide and frame.
 
Why a 1911?

I would say for most folks you will be served better with a different platform. The 1911 is an enthusiast pistol -- I love 1911's but no longer carry one, I will occasional shoot matches with it, if I am shooting Heavy Metal.

IF you want to get into 1911's prepare for either a large dollar expenditure for a true custom gun, or a smaller large expenditure for a semi-custom gun (Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown), if you shoot an lot and want to be happy.

If you plan on shooting over 5k a year (or over 20k in the guns lifetime) regardless of platform you choose TAKE A 1911 Pistolsmith Class. The guns are finicky and parts need to be hand fitted -- drop in parts on a 1911 do not drop in.

If you are handy and want to learn - buy a frame or base gun and build it to want you want -- Norinco or Remington have good base guns to do this, or if you want to start from scratch get a Caspian frame.

In all honesty it is fun building your own gun -- I did that from a 1943 Ithaca frame in Iraq -- I had a lot of help both from experts on the platform, and from a teammate who prior to becoming an Assaulter in the SASR was a machinist (drop in parts do not drop in).

However if your looking from a practical standpoint - buy a Glock17 or S&W M&P9, and spend the monies you would have spent on the 1911 on ammo - and enjoy yourself.
 
misanthropist said:
Most people don't have the skill to tell much about a 1911 beyond the basic function tests. You can feel the tightness of the barrel lockup by feeling for play on the hood, and I find racking them slowly usually gives me some insight in to the barrel linkage but you need to have felt a bunch to tell much of anything.

Consequently the easiest thing for most people to do is to start with companies with a statistical track record of building dependable guns:

Colt

Springfield

There are others to consider, but that's a complete list of companies building guns around the $1200 mark that I would actually bank on. You can get better guns but the price goes up significantly, as do the wait times in most cases. You can also get decent guns that I wouldn't bet my life on but that should serve for most purposes, and I would put the STI Trojan and up and the S&W E series in that category.

Or you can get entry level guns with little to no hand fitting, built from reverse-engineered specs. Some companies do this well. For an entry level 1911 I like the Ruger. It has some decent features for the buck.

The SIG 1911s are difficult to predict. The first ones were apocalyptically bad. Then they brought in a bunch of good 1911 builders and bought high-quality parts and built some really nice ones. Then they got rid of those builders and figured they'd learned how to do it right on their own. Then they built a bunch of guns that ranged from pretty good to really poor. Then they got better at building the guns...and started cheaping out on parts. Who knows what they're doing now...I have not heard any recent SIGs that will reliably pass the no mag extraction/ejection test (which is not surprising considering how high they put their external extractor...)

Finally you can get CHEAP 1911s and just roll the dice completely, or rebuild them totally. I am currently building a 1911 on a Norinco frame and slide, because I find their frames and slides to be excellent. I am not sure about the barrels yet. I do not like their small parts and I would not trust a chinese spring to close a pez dispenser, let alone stand up to the often pretty punishing duty cycles of 1911s.

The Philippino guns are usually fitted together better than the Chinese guns, but usually have cast frames and slides which probably doesn't matter but should bug a purist. Of course the Ruger is a cast frame too (a Caspian, really) and so are most if not all of the available Springfields.


If I were allocating funds, here is how it would go:

Broke: Norinco + ammo from Canam
Tight: Ruger + ammo from Canam
Cheque to cheque: STI Trojan
Stably employed: Colt XSE or similar
Major promotion: Colt 01970CY
President of the company: Wilson
Own the company and it's going public: Heirloom
Click to expand...

This above is a great analysis.

:canadaFlag:
----------
NAA.
 
KevinB said:
Why a 1911?

I would say for most folks you will be served better with a different platform. The 1911 is an enthusiast pistol -- I love 1911's but no longer carry one, I will occasional shoot matches with it, if I am shooting Heavy Metal.

IF you want to get into 1911's prepare for either a large dollar expenditure for a true custom gun, or a smaller large expenditure for a semi-custom gun (Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, Ed Brown), if you shoot an lot and want to be happy.

If you plan on shooting over 5k a year (or over 20k in the guns lifetime) regardless of platform you choose TAKE A 1911 Pistolsmith Class. The guns are finicky and parts need to be hand fitted -- drop in parts on a 1911 do not drop in.

If you are handy and want to learn - buy a frame or base gun and build it to want you want -- Norinco or Remington have good base guns to do this, or if you want to start from scratch get a Caspian frame.

In all honesty it is fun building your own gun -- I did that from a 1943 Ithaca frame in Iraq -- I had a lot of help both from experts on the platform, and from a teammate who prior to becoming an Assaulter in the SASR was a machinist (drop in parts do not drop in).

However if your looking from a practical standpoint - buy a Glock17 or S&W M&P9, and spend the monies you would have spent on the 1911 on ammo - and enjoy yourself.
Click to expand...

best post in this thread so far
 
posted by misanthropist : "Finally you can get CHEAP 1911s and just roll the dice completely, or rebuild them totally. I am currently building a 1911 on a Norinco frame and slide, because I find their frames and slides to be excellent. I am not sure about the barrels yet. I do not like their small parts and I would not trust a chinese spring to close a pez dispenser, let alone stand up to the often pretty punishing duty cycles of 1911s."

I'm a 1911 noob (and apparently a broke one by the definitions used since I bought the CanAm deal, not arguing though, lol), but can you clarify the highlighted comment as to why you say that. Is it because of the materials used, metal treatment or lack thereof, etc. compared to other available replacement parts, such as surface-hardened metal versus tougher metals to start with. I do anticipate replacing the springs after a while, but even though I have heard a lot of people talk about replacing internal parts, I have seen kits costing hundreds of dollars and am hesitant to go down that road instead of just buy a 'higher grade' gun. Are the Norinco internals such a well-known problem or something?

Before and since buying the Norinco deal (not yet received), I poured over many forums (Canada, US & even outside North America) to find out the general opinions, expecting to hear a lot of "Chinese junk" comments but pleasantly surprised to hear generally positive comments instead. I'll never go to the "super-grade gun" level because my budget and level of involvement in the shooting sports will likely never justify it. However, if there are definite reasons to bite the bullet on internals I'd like to know from more experienced shooters based on something beyond just brand name snobbery. Only a true SHTF situation would make me be concerned over the reliable operation I expect to get from the gun.

No need to apologise for the budgetary ranking you gave, that goes with the territory on any product. I know I am on the lower end of that spectrum. I am looking at Ruger SR1911, CZ75B stainless (9mm) & SAM Thunderbolt for my next prospective purchase, one more step up the budget ladder, lol.
 
THE NEW REMINGTON® MODEL 1911 R1 Carry .
might just be the ticket ...all the cool nessasary stuff I like .plus a nice tight frame to slight fit and no front serrations .and a fair price .
I might buy this gun .
Remington-R1-Carry_001_zpsc4cb6e48.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
I have 17 1911's, it is my favorite platform to shoot.

Mine range from a Norc I got for free, to mid pack brand (S&W, Kimber, sig, colt), to my NHC.


Having shot all mine regularly (at least one 1911 accompanies every range trip) I can say that IMO, the NHC is a fantastic gun


P1050573.jpg



P1050574.jpg




But, I love em all......well, maybe not the norc so much!
 
I haven't seen Dan Wesson mentioned here. I know their price have gone up significantly in the recent years but they're worth every penny. Imo and from what I've seen, they're a notch up Colt/Kimber/Whatever in their price range. If you have the money this is where I would look. Higher than that you fall into the custom / semi-custom world (EB, Wilson, NHC, etc..)
 
I bought the ruger for casual plinking and it has failed to disappoint. I could have afforded something "better", but I tend to be pretty value conscious and don't see the point in paying more for something with the same features that I won't be any more accurate with.

Oh, and if you reload, Prairie Gun Traders has the cheapest sr1911 I could find ($700) Free shipping plus you get it in days as opposed to weeks or months.
 
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