Using magnum primers for light 303 loads
- Thread starter BMcK
- Start date
Magnum primers have nothing whatever to do with the load being light or otherwise. They're about the powder used. Magnum primers burn a bit hotter for a bit longer than standard primers. They're for powders that need that and cold weather shooting. You really should work up the load again after changing any one component, but it's not terribly critical for a .303. Certainly isn't in any way unsafe.
Best answer so far, American military ammunition loaded with double base ball powders all use a magnum type primer.
American .303 British ammunition loaded for the British during WWII was loaded with BLC2 ball powder and magnum type primers.
"....303 British ammunition loaded for the British during WWII..." No such thing as BL-C2 during W.W. II. BL-C2 was developed for 7.62NATO. No such thing as magnum primers either, as I recall.
Nor do you need magnum primers for spherical powders.
Nor do you need magnum primers for spherical powders.
sunray
This is the second time in this forum in the past two days you have stepped in your own fecal debris, I have ammunition manuals from the British MOD Pattern Room library from WWII stating Winchester made .303 ammunition loaded with double base ball powders, it further states that this Winchester ammunition like Cordite ammunition is not to be used in machine guns. Winchester loaded Olin ball powder in WWII .303 ammunition and in 1947 Bruce E. Hodgdon sold this powder as BLC2 as one of his surplus powders.
"In the opening days of World War II, a chemist friend of Bruce E. Hodgdon was casually reminiscing about World War I. He mentioned the quantities of surplus smokeless powder the military had dumped at sea after the war; and speculated how useful that would have been to handloaders struggling through the Great Depression. He anticipated a similar surplus powder situation might occur after World War II. Hodgdon began investigating availability of surplus powder when the war ended; and sales to handloaders began in 1946. One of the first powders he found was 4895 used for loading .30-06 Springfield service ammunition. In 1947, he began acquisition of 80 tons of spherical powder salvaged from disassembled .303 British military rifle cartridges manufactured in the United States. By 1949, he was marketing the powder as BL type C. The C was to indicate the powder burned "cooler" than traditional Improved Military Rifle (IMR) powders. In 1949, he began acquisition of powder salvaged from disassembled Oerlikon 20mm cannon cartridges. This powder resembled IMR 4350 in appearance, and with a slower burning rate, was initially marketed as "4350 Data", and later as 4831."
Hodgdon Powder Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hodgdon_Powder_Company
Magnum type primers are used with military double base ball powders due to the deterrent coating on the powder used to slow the burning rate and make it burn cooler.
CCI No. 34 and No. 41 MILITARY RIFLE PRIMERS
Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
Features and Benefits
* Mil-spec sensitivity
* Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants
*Available in large (No.34) and small (No. 41) rifle
* Use the same data as CCI Magnum primers
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=30
sunray, people come to forums to ask questions and get the right answers and your answers sunray are way off the mark. I would be more than a little embarrassed to have an American know more about the British Enfield rifle and its ammunition if I were British.(or from Londinium)
You need to spend more time doing research and less time posting the wrong answers.
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No kidding! Post counts don't always correlate with knowledge.
Ball C2 is still the magic powder for the 303 British. No trouble at all to get 180s past 2500 fps using it with magnum primers in the Lee Enfield.
Ted
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CreamySmooth
CGN frequent flyer
From Hodgdon's site re: BL-C(2)
"A spherical powder that began as a military powder used in the 7.62 NATO, commonly known as the 308 Winchester. When it was first introduced to the handloader, benchrest shooters and other target shooters made it an instant success. BL-C(2) works extremely well in the 204 Ruger, 223 Remington, 17 Remington, 22 PPC and of course, the 308 Winchester, plus many more. Available in 1 lb. & 8 lb. containers."
From the same writings you have quoted from, here is the continuation:
"All of the surplus BL type C had been sold by 1961. Olin Corporation had manufactured the powder as 846, and continued production for loading 7.62x51mm NATO cartridges.[1] Hodgdon began marketing post-war production as spherical BL-C lot no. 2, or BL-C(2)."
So technically, BL-C(2) didn't exist during WWII. Whether or not any improvements were made to the powder for post-war production I don't know, but BL type C was a surplus war use powder, BL-C(2) was not, it was new manufacture. This may be splitting hairs performance wise, but I find it prudent to note as sunray wasn't trying to mislead, but simply relying on Hodgdon's own provided information.
As for primers, I don't know if they existed, but I do know you don't need magnum primers for ball powder.
Later.
Oh, and go ahead and use the mag primers.
"A spherical powder that began as a military powder used in the 7.62 NATO, commonly known as the 308 Winchester. When it was first introduced to the handloader, benchrest shooters and other target shooters made it an instant success. BL-C(2) works extremely well in the 204 Ruger, 223 Remington, 17 Remington, 22 PPC and of course, the 308 Winchester, plus many more. Available in 1 lb. & 8 lb. containers."
From the same writings you have quoted from, here is the continuation:
"All of the surplus BL type C had been sold by 1961. Olin Corporation had manufactured the powder as 846, and continued production for loading 7.62x51mm NATO cartridges.[1] Hodgdon began marketing post-war production as spherical BL-C lot no. 2, or BL-C(2)."
So technically, BL-C(2) didn't exist during WWII. Whether or not any improvements were made to the powder for post-war production I don't know, but BL type C was a surplus war use powder, BL-C(2) was not, it was new manufacture. This may be splitting hairs performance wise, but I find it prudent to note as sunray wasn't trying to mislead, but simply relying on Hodgdon's own provided information.
As for primers, I don't know if they existed, but I do know you don't need magnum primers for ball powder.
Later.
Oh, and go ahead and use the mag primers.
Your problem is taking sunray seriously. He never has anything to say other than "no, can't be done, bad idea, not going to happen, don't do it, NEGATIVE.....
His posts are incorrect at least 50 % of the time. Probably more, but I don't go seeking his posts, since they never have anything of value in them!
I've tried magnum primers for light loads in .303 and several other similar calibers. They didn't give me quite as good groups as standard primers, but not a dead loss by any means. I'd buy a few to tide me over, but wouldn't go out and stock up on them.
Grouch
Grouch
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So true!
I don't take sunray seriously and know BS when I see it, I replied because I don't want the new and younger members falling for his BS and adding to the confusion of young innocent minds. One of your Canadian members actually thanked him for his BS reply. On top of this a moderator replied "So True" when the moderator should ban this person for posting so much garbage and misinformation polluting this forum.
Think about it, how many of the well respected members here have 16,000 posts?
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Moderators have rules to follow just like the members do. We cant just run around banning people because they are wrong. If you have a problem with a member hit the report button, give an explanation and the moderation team can look into it and discuss.
