My word...it wasnt even a Norinco
- Thread starter yomomma
- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Whatever, I am an A hole in case folks are just figuring that out now. Build or tune and actually shoot several hundred chinese rifles and then come and talk to me about your "experience". Because surely, if these rifles were as dangerous as you keep preaching... I'd be dead or at least have a singed eyebrow by now.
I am familiar with Dogleg's rifle or at least I think so.
I don't want to be too much of a #### but for the past few years you barely post then you build an LRB and come on here with pulpit in tow preaching the dangers of chinese rifles... In every thread you can.
It's getting old, boring, and well... Simply no fun.
But that's just me and I'll be leaving you all very soon so don't sweat it too muchwe're all grown ups here
I was enjoying your posts and input, things just soured there in two posts pretty strongly. Curiously, I've been at the M14s a long time like most of us, I have however just migrated back to actually talking about them in this forum after nearly exclusively talking hunting here for a few years. Hunting's my passion, the guns are just a side hobby, M14s an aspect of which I really enjoy and am very familiar with.
So I suppose we dislike each other afterall. Years ago we met, and were on very different terms, tonight was a surprise and best to say character was different than I had thought. Sounds like you feel the same, wherever you're going enjoy the trip.
To the thread, buy what you want to buy, and share the opinions you wish to so will I. I enjoy the guys here, and M14s, and have the odd friend left who shoots Norcs, those are shrinking at least the internet ones it seems as the arguments and incidents become more bitter.
I think its exactly what you should expect them to do. It's a battle rifle not a varmint rifle. My comment was sarcastic.
I agree that spare parts make sense. Treeline sells a parts kit for M14 Bolt, trigger group, roll pins and yes I have a full parts kit for my AR's. It just makes sense. The question is should a barrel be a spare part.
I have no problem with anyone buying a Norinco. Their choice, their right but I would recommend it as a project gun not a first centerfire rifle. How about a nice Savage bolt action?
I do not feel stupid for spending 4 X as much for a Springfield. You should not label me an elitist fool for doing so. I also earn my money as Daddy never got rich and set me up.
I have no problem with surplus rifles. The M96 Swede 6.5 X 55 I bought at SIR for $125 back in 1992 was awesome. I'm never selling my No 4 Mk1 Long Branch. Never ever.
If I was wealthy I'd be ordering up a couple LRB rifles.
I do not feel stupid for spending 4 X as much for a Springfield. You should not label me an elitist fool for doing so. I also earn my money as Daddy never got rich and set me up.
I have no problem with surplus rifles. The M96 Swede 6.5 X 55 I bought at SIR for $125 back in 1992 was awesome. I'm never selling my No 4 Mk1 Long Branch. Never ever.
If I was wealthy I'd be ordering up a couple LRB rifles.
It's all good kids.
Ardent, I don't remember meeting but your prescence on the site has been a long one. I have respected and agreed with a great many of your comments/posts over the years.
My problem is this... And I believe sharing this perspective will explain my position and attitude.
I get inundated, nearly everyday with pm's and emails from canadian M14 type rifle owners. Half the time I am waaaayyy to busy to possibly answwer them all and many get ignored sadly.
When the handful of guys start up with the anti norc stuff and someone's mishap is blown way out of proportion(not saying they all are) , my inbox simply becomes something I dread opening. Drives me farking nutz. Not sure if the same thing happens to Hungry.... If it does, he handles it better than I obviously.
I get labelled as a guy who thinks norcs are the best to buy and that I despise springfield and so on.
This also is far from the truth. I am a fan of the platform in general but the main battle rifle forum has been built on the norinco M14s/m305. The community Hungry started, was based on.... The norinco M14s/M305 , so in short, this community of m14 nutz on CGN is/was made possible by the M14s/m305.
Lastly, we should all feel free to post our opinions, but with that comes a responsibilty to know when enough is enough.
So with that, I'll endeavor to care a little less when I see folks panicking because of a few issues with these rifles. I'll also try and ignore those that feel it is their duty to warn the masses away from buying and shooting chinese rifles.
Ardent, I don't remember meeting but your prescence on the site has been a long one. I have respected and agreed with a great many of your comments/posts over the years.
My problem is this... And I believe sharing this perspective will explain my position and attitude.
I get inundated, nearly everyday with pm's and emails from canadian M14 type rifle owners. Half the time I am waaaayyy to busy to possibly answwer them all and many get ignored sadly.
When the handful of guys start up with the anti norc stuff and someone's mishap is blown way out of proportion(not saying they all are) , my inbox simply becomes something I dread opening. Drives me farking nutz. Not sure if the same thing happens to Hungry.... If it does, he handles it better than I obviously.
I get labelled as a guy who thinks norcs are the best to buy and that I despise springfield and so on.
This also is far from the truth. I am a fan of the platform in general but the main battle rifle forum has been built on the norinco M14s/m305. The community Hungry started, was based on.... The norinco M14s/M305 , so in short, this community of m14 nutz on CGN is/was made possible by the M14s/m305.
Lastly, we should all feel free to post our opinions, but with that comes a responsibilty to know when enough is enough.
So with that, I'll endeavor to care a little less when I see folks panicking because of a few issues with these rifles. I'll also try and ignore those that feel it is their duty to warn the masses away from buying and shooting chinese rifles.
Actually what really makes a group or family great is the ability to disagree fervently with one another and still stand together. This thread at its core is a celebration of the last steel warrior. The coolest military rifle ever.
Please, please, please keep your clothes on this time...
Fightin back the tears as I write................ Group hug anyone
That's a very good point, and one I hadn't really thought of before. Since Norc. made the M14 platform affordable to all, the battle rifle forum has a lot more input and experiences. If it was just the guys who own (ie-can afford) a Springfield ect. the forum would be cut cut down big time, and hence the knowledge and experiences go down as well. It also would leave the platform more open to attack and reclassification by the antis. It's harder to reclass and confiscate 10000 rifles than 100. So cheers, and keep shooting.
Fightin back the tears as I write................ Group hug anyone
Not my objective. I really enjoy the exchange. If we were all a bunch of milk fed yes men this wouldn't be any fun. Also by making criticism the true opinions come out and we all benefit from it. This ain't the Partridge family Danny.
Passion
It makes me a little sad to read this thread. I think what I see is a number of people who are passionate about the sport of shooting and gun smithing. In particular I see people who want to share their enjoyment of the M14/M1A/M305 platform. I mainly am a lurker on threads. I read them to find out what others are doing. I am drawn to posts by those that have great knowledge and practical experience and are able to communicate this to others. When I read posts I mentally focus on material where people are in agreement about an issue and spend much less time on material where people are in disagreement. I think time is wasted in rebuttal with those that hold passionate opinions. It is like listening to first year politics students arguing about ideology. (Remember the Monty Python skit where the Judean People's Front hate the People's Front of Judea.)
Life is short. Strive for harmony. Realize that facts are facts and can't be changed. Personal experiences are real but may be different from the experiences of others. State your opinion then move on. Spend time with your family.
Thanks to all of you who have educated myself and others. Your efforts have made my shooting experience more fun and safe.
It makes me a little sad to read this thread. I think what I see is a number of people who are passionate about the sport of shooting and gun smithing. In particular I see people who want to share their enjoyment of the M14/M1A/M305 platform. I mainly am a lurker on threads. I read them to find out what others are doing. I am drawn to posts by those that have great knowledge and practical experience and are able to communicate this to others. When I read posts I mentally focus on material where people are in agreement about an issue and spend much less time on material where people are in disagreement. I think time is wasted in rebuttal with those that hold passionate opinions. It is like listening to first year politics students arguing about ideology. (Remember the Monty Python skit where the Judean People's Front hate the People's Front of Judea.)
Life is short. Strive for harmony. Realize that facts are facts and can't be changed. Personal experiences are real but may be different from the experiences of others. State your opinion then move on. Spend time with your family.
Thanks to all of you who have educated myself and others. Your efforts have made my shooting experience more fun and safe.
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300+ through the Norc so far and it hasn't failed me yet. And it hits what you point it at. If I had infinite money, I'm sure an SEI would be in my case right now instead, but I currently don't even shoot far enough to reap those benefits. Plus, I can use the leftover cash for more guns.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I had a chuckle and point of levity reading this, as I recognise the PM part, I receive those same PMs and all that differs I'm sure between us is the opinions we return to the enquiries. What's more, I receive an awful lot of questions related to my site on guns / hunting / Africa etc by email, and PM of course, and indeed it can feel like work. Perhaps the rest of this is better shared by PM, but I'll share it here as it started here.
Where I feel things changed is insults were thrown, you'd called me a liar and exaggerator in thinly veiled terms, when I am neither of the sort. Even in just this thread another barrel blow up I hadn't heard about was mentioned by a user. You just don't need to exaggerate to make the arguments I'm supporting, and knowing two fellows with guns that blew up in their hands (one of whom you can talk to yourselves on here) and talking about those two incidents is fact relation, and in no way exaggeration. Another, a third fellow with whom I've just made acquaintence and can't yet claim to know yet, is sending me a blown up M14 barreled action to test on (bolt failure). These are facts, being called an exaggerator or liar, take your pick of terms, when the stuff and incidents that get me "frothing at the mouth" are right here for all to see angered me severely. If you're the type that needs pictures those can be provided I'm sure with little difficulty.
I also must admit I've been tempted to call you an exaggerator, due to some quite unreal Springfield dangers / experiences you've detailed in quantity in the past. I didn't, because I would like to think I give the benefit of the doubt, just because I've never seen it and it seems fishy to me doesn't mean it isn't true. I have also been tempted to question your machining, deeply involved gunsmithing (apart from assembling), and metallurgy experience, especially in light of your barb towards me about "You build an LRB and..." Again, I chose to hold my tongue, as I just don't know and will give the benefit of the doubt. I'll trust you even, to be more direct. After I cooled down I took it as a desperate, and now perhaps I see it as frustrated rather than desperate given the PM questions explained, act to get me "off your back". I found it a tack I hadn't expected as mentioned having met you in person, your demeanour was not that of an "as$hole" as you describe yourself here. I found you quiet, inviting, and respectful.
Whether we like it or not, there is no question Norcs are failing quite frequently. Plenty (most by good measure) run great, and everyone gets to decide whether the failure risk is mitigated by the value they can provide. I've been fortunate in work and the choice is easy for me on bang for your buck vs guaranteed quality at a far higher cost, I recognise others will have different priorities when considering. I won't call them idiots, exaggerators, or liars, as they don't deserve that, and I will continue to share my opinion from what I have seen of Norcs and the frustrations I faced in building on them compared to M1A and LRB receivers. Those opinions are rarely popular here, as you note, because of the user base which is built on Norincos. I have no issue with debate, disagreement, and enjoy discussion. I take great issue with character insults and belittling due to disagreement.
I'm sure, in time , you'll get over it.
And I don't think the rest of CGN cares about our disagreement or whatever has happened here.
Fact is, there are thousands of chinese rifles in canada alone. Thousands of shooters and a handful of horror stories none of us can deny.
Does it pay to be on this site and other M14 sites, educating yourself on the pre pur hase facts? Indeed it does.
Do I personally feel and have I personally posted that the last couple years of imports of the M14s/M305 seem to be getting to the bottom of the barrel? Indeed I have.
Do I feel I should go on a crusade to ensure shooters out there "beware of chinese m14 rifles" because of a small percent of failures.... Knowing that all the dealers of these rifles offer a warranty AND have insurance to protect them should a firearm they sell fail? .... I don't think that's any of our jobs here.
Anyhow, all manufacturers of these rifles have had issues and for those that continually preach the pitfalls of the chinese platform, perhaps spend equal time preachin the pitfalls of other brands. Because there have been many documented issues with them all.
Anyhow, I'll stop posting in this thread now.
And I don't think the rest of CGN cares about our disagreement or whatever has happened here.
Fact is, there are thousands of chinese rifles in canada alone. Thousands of shooters and a handful of horror stories none of us can deny.
Does it pay to be on this site and other M14 sites, educating yourself on the pre pur hase facts? Indeed it does.
Do I personally feel and have I personally posted that the last couple years of imports of the M14s/M305 seem to be getting to the bottom of the barrel? Indeed I have.
Do I feel I should go on a crusade to ensure shooters out there "beware of chinese m14 rifles" because of a small percent of failures.... Knowing that all the dealers of these rifles offer a warranty AND have insurance to protect them should a firearm they sell fail? .... I don't think that's any of our jobs here.
Anyhow, all manufacturers of these rifles have had issues and for those that continually preach the pitfalls of the chinese platform, perhaps spend equal time preachin the pitfalls of other brands. Because there have been many documented issues with them all.
Anyhow, I'll stop posting in this thread now.
His personal experience with the specific brand of rifle leaves much to be desired.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Curious comment from a fellow "crusader", please clarify. Unfortunately I built on them a good deal five to ten years ago including ground up builds, decided they weren't worth the trouble. Two then blew up on shooting acquaintences and a third blow up is being sent to me, seems we agree that my experiences leave much to be desired, just in different ways. Lots of surprises in this thread, you I would have marked along with Lordevilpepper as the other most "ardent" disparagers of Norcs. Seems folks are manuevering for peace, guess that's a good thing.
