Well Cleaning the bolt did notwork

C

Collieman

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HI all, still got a problem with I asked about before.
The problem, a round could be injected, close the op rod....CLICK
So, I cleaned the firing pin, as I had it apart, re-greased all parts, op rod, op spring guide,
roller bearing and etc.
Put it all back together , loaded 5 rnds. and off to the range. First rnd. CLICK. Not good!!!
All brass was PPU, I loaded and this was my re-loading with this brass, no problems with any other.
Thanks to all for info, and good shooting.
cheers
 
My thoughts:

Bolt issues:
- Something stopping the firing pin (result: pin doesn't impact the primer hard enough or at all).
- Firing pin is broken (result: same as above)
- Round is not seated properly on the bolt face (result: pin is not hitting the primer right)
- Bolt is worn or headspace is horrible (result: gap between bolt face and shell base doesn't let firing pin impact the primer hard enough or at all)
Trigger issues:
- Broken main hammer spring in the trigger housing (result: trigger pull slams the hammer down, but with no force and pin doesn't impact the primer hard enough or at all)
- Something stopping the hammer from hitting the pin properly (result: loud snap, but pin doesn't get hit)
- Trigger release and safety sear (right terminology?) are too close (result: pulling the trigger lets the hammer click into sear - the part that prevents hammer fall with trigger pulled on second round)

Most battle rifles have pretty strong springs: the click should be very loud. If it sounds like a click, that could be a trigger issue. If it sounds like a hard snap, that could be hammer stopping short or a bolt issue.

Without more, that's what I got.... :yingyang:
 
Aniest said:
My thoughts:

Bolt issues:
- Something stopping the firing pin (result: pin doesn't impact the primer hard enough or at all).
- Firing pin is broken (result: same as above)
- Round is not seated properly on the bolt face (result: pin is not hitting the primer right)
- Bolt is worn or headspace is horrible (result: gap between bolt face and shell base doesn't let firing pin impact the primer hard enough or at all)
Trigger issues:
- Broken main hammer spring in the trigger housing (result: trigger pull slams the hammer down, but with no force and pin doesn't impact the primer hard enough or at all)
- Something stopping the hammer from hitting the pin properly (result: loud snap, but pin doesn't get hit)
- Trigger release and safety sear (right terminology?) are too close (result: pulling the trigger lets the hammer click into sear - the part that prevents hammer fall with trigger pulled on second round)

Most battle rifles have pretty strong springs: the click should be very loud. If it sounds like a click, that could be a trigger issue. If it sounds like a hard snap, that could be hammer stopping short or a bolt issue.

Without more, that's what I got.... :yingyang:
Click to expand...

Pretty much second everything above and short of that.... You close to a upcoming clinic or maybe send it to a good smith. Unfortunately I'm retired and not doing anything more than consult and off advice. ;)

Question : and maybe I missed it posted already but have you tried any factory ammo? Like federal 150gr power shok?
Might rule out a primer seating issue.

And if you have calipers, can you measure firing pin protrusion. Press on rear tang forcing pin all the way forward and measure at bolt face. This could be important.

I'd also inspect the trigger group as suggested above. Look for foreign maaterial in front of hammer between it and trigger housing especially
 
Collieman said:
All brass was PPU, I loaded and this was my re-loading with this brass, no problems with any other.
Click to expand...

Some questions about this situation. You state that no problems with any other. Does this mean factory rounds? Re-loaded rounds with other brass? The reason is that I do not typically reload with PPU as the primers (CCI's) seat noticeably deeper as opposed to Winny or Remington brass.

So you clean the primer pockets just enough or aggressively?

On the PPU check the seating depth of the primer relative to the firing pin protrusion. I think you will find the source to the issue.
 
Thats where my train of thought was going.

sobo4303 said:
Some questions about this situation. You state that no problems with any other. Does this mean factory rounds? Re-loaded rounds with other brass? The reason is that I do not typically reload with PPU as the primers (CCI's) seat noticeably deeper as opposed to Winny or Remington brass.

So you clean the primer pockets just enough or aggressively?

On the PPU check the seating depth of the primer relative to the firing pin protrusion. I think you will find the source to the issue.
Click to expand...
 
Good points and thanks. Head space is correct, when fired single shot, primer is hit dead center. All rounds that did not feed off the mag fired as a single shot.
One thought though is, the bolt going ahead far enough so firing pin can contact primer, and if not why?
Thanks to all, got me beat, but guess by the process of elimination I'll get it.
 
OK, when mag is in, bolt is open, pull back on the op rod and let it do it's thing, is this not what it is supposed to do?? Having read what I have there are 2 ways to close the op rod, ease it in and at the last moment let it go, or release the bolt from the bolt lock and let the op. spring do it's job??
Appreciate all help and answers, thanks
 
thanks and like the reply. The PPU brass was new, never considered cleaning the flash hole but did encounter problems seating primers.
To answer your question, no problems occurred with either commercial or my re-loads. On reloading I tend to stick with Remington or Winchester and I had no problems.
 
I went back and read your first post; but first.

Collieman said:
OK, when mag is in, bolt is open, pull back on the op rod and let it do it's thing, is this not what it is supposed to do?? Having read what I have there are 2 ways to close the op rod, ease it in and at the last moment let it go, or release the bolt from the bolt lock and let the op. spring do it's job??
Appreciate all help and answers, thanks
Click to expand...

If you have a loaded magazine and the bolt locked back, you just pull back enough to drop the bolt lock and then let it fly: this allows the round to "roll into" the extractor naturally as designed and ensure proper bolt closure. If you have an empty magazine and are loading in one round loose, the recommendation I have read (a link in the sticky M305 FAQ I think) is to let the op rod/bolt half way and then let it slam shut: this reduces the pressure on the extractor and prevents breakage, but still allows proper bolt closure.

Let me get this straight: you said single rounds (single shot) were fine. Was this because of single loading a round into the chamber, or because you turned the valve spindle to stop the gas operated auto loading? It makes little difference, but if the problem is only when a round comes off the magazine that tells us something.

I am only guessing as I am NOT an expert, but the only one thing I can think of that cause a change is: when you painted the stock you got paint in the trigger and gas/op area of the stock, then when you put the receiver (with barrel, gas system and such) and trigger group back into the stock some of that paint scrapped off, and now paint is lodged somewhere. It has to be a trigger or bolt issue: the gas system would prevent proper auto loading of the semi-automatic, not getting the primer to work.

I would say start with opening it back up and clean it based on the cosmoline removing guides (see stickies but not an oven or dishwasher though): get it very clean and then lubricate as directed. Try it at the range/shooting area again.

This could be worked out by yourself but a clinic or gunsmith would work better and faster: only the gunsmith is gonna be pricey. :yingyang:
 
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If it fires factory ammo without a malfunction, like federal, win or factory nato.... But fails on the PPU , it's gotta be a primer issue but doesn"t make sense that that ammo would fire single shot.

As far as I've been taught, never drop a round in the chamber and close the bolt. Lots of guys do it but as far as I practice (and that's just me), always chamber from the mag and let the oprod violently return to battery. As Hungry likes to yell... Rack it like a man you b*tch ;)
If yer ever on his firing line with an M14, you'll no doubt hear those words hehehe

I dunno, lots of good trains of thought here.
 
Just thinkin about this some more.
Just trying to get a clearer picture of what's happening.
When you put a full mag in and chamber a round by letting oprod fly home.... It fires ? Right?

And it clicks on 2nd round.... Or it fails to grab a round and fires on an empty chamber?
This may have been answered already but can you clarify?
If it's failing to fire on round 2 , is bolt truly closing all the way? If not possible firing pin tang/safety bridge doing it's job?

Or if it's not picking up round 2 and firing on empty chamber.... This is a whole other animal and would lead us to paint slowing the action down enough to cause the problem or a possible gas flow issue caused by paint or something else.

Please correct anything above that is NOT happening hehehehe
Damn it's like an M14 brain teaser and I can't stop mulling it over in the back of my mind ;)
 
Let it fly from all the way back. If it's not completely forward, the bolt won't rotate into position and the firing pin is blocked from going forward to prevent an out of battery discharge.
 
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