SAA Build

tactical870

tactical870

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Buckhorn, Ontario
Well after 2 years in the safe, I've finally collected enough parts to build my 1883 built Colt 1873 SAA. It was originally a rather tough 44 wcf gun but I managed to scoop a 38 special cylinder and 357 barrel for it. I recently bought a box of small parts including a brand new hammer, ejector housing and some other stuff. I also made the decision that I'm going to build it myself as there aren't too many smiths willing to take on the job. Luckily I have a copy of Jerry Kuhnhausen's Colt SAA manual. The only think I don't really like is the aftermarket barrel requires a little more fitting than most...... Pics to follow.....
 
The barrel will have to be indexed, and its length adjusted for cylinder gap. Probably easiest with a lathe.
 
41 Colt said:
So it was registered to start with being 44wcf, right? You can now deregister it.
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Huh, was told by a LEO that if an antique is verified to be an antique and then someone re calibers it to a round other than the approved antiques, ie 44 russian, 455 etc then you are circumventing the law and the spirit of the antique status and the gun suddenly becomes an unregistered restricted or prohib if the barrel is well you know. Anyway looking nice gun.
 
johnl said:
Huh, was told by a LEO that if an antique is verified to be an antique and then someone re calibers it to a round other than the approved antiques, ie 44 russian, 455 etc then you are circumventing the law and the spirit of the antique status and the gun suddenly becomes an unregistered restricted or prohib if the barrel is well you know. Anyway looking nice gun.
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Wrong.
 
johnl said:
Huh, was told by a LEO that if an antique is verified to be an antique and then someone re calibers it to a round other than the approved antiques, ie 44 russian, 455 etc then you are circumventing the law and the spirit of the antique status and the gun suddenly becomes an unregistered restricted or prohib if the barrel is well you know. Anyway looking nice gun.
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41 Colt said:
No he's right isn't he? He's saying the LEO said if a gun is .41 colt (antique) and you make it .38 colt it becomes (an unregistered) restricted or prohibited.....or did I read it wrong?
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The way I read it he is saying there is a list of (not) approved calibers... But he has it backwards.

For example... He thinks converting a saa to .38 spl is illegal. It isn't.
 
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johnl said:
Huh, was told by a LEO that if an antique is verified to be an antique and then someone re calibers it to a round other than the approved antiques, ie 44 russian, 455 etc then you are circumventing the law and the spirit of the antique status and the gun suddenly becomes an unregistered restricted or prohib if the barrel is well you know. Anyway looking nice gun.
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No offence to your Leo friend but thats not true anymore. theres alot of cops who dont understand how the new antique rules work there complicated and hard to follow for most people.
Theres a list of no Cartridges as long as your pre 1898 made gun is set up in a cartridge that is not on that list then its a perscribed antique.
44 40 WCF is on the No list so is 45 colt theres a bunch of cartridges on that list 38 Sp 44 Sp 44 russian are not on the No list.
In the rimfires they list almost all the 22s but not 22 magnum thats why you can have a pre 1898 made handgun in 22 magnum RF as its a diffrent chamber than the smaller dia 22 rimfires ammos that are on the No list.
The thing to keep in mind is what your antique gun can handle and what you feed it tho almost everyone reloads and loads down from factory balistics.

People like Bob Christy and elmer keith and alot of others in the USA have been altering SAA colts to more modern cartridges all thru the 1900s to this day its still done.

I think what your Leo friend is thinking of is the old antique handgun laws pre 1990s where they said they could only be antique if they fired obsolete cartridges that were no longer available thru comerical outlets.

Nice build by the way Tactical870 :)
 
johnl said:
Huh, was told by a LEO that if an antique is verified to be an antique and then someone re calibers it to a round other than the approved antiques, ie 44 russian, 455 etc then you are circumventing the law and the spirit of the antique status and the gun suddenly becomes an unregistered restricted or prohib if the barrel is well you know. Anyway looking nice gun.
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In BC there is a policy (not a law) that if the gun was a prohib then altered to restricted (or presumably to antique) and the barrel and in the case of revolvers, the cylinder, are removed, the frame itself returns to prohibited status. Since it is policy and not law, if you were then found with the frame I would presume that you are unlikely to be charged because it is the prosecutor who makes the decision. On the other hand if the frame was post 1898, from personal experience, the provincial firearms office would block any transfer and order the frame either rebarreled or destroyed. Fortunately with antiques, once they are officially antique, their transfer does not involve registration or the provincial firearms office. That means that if you had an antique with a poor frame and found a much better frame, you could transfer the parts to the new (antique) frame and sell the poor one without interference from the provincial firearms office

cheers mooncoon
 
but if it was 44-40 and rechambered/barreled to .38 sp does that mean you can change it to antique status or does the status still revert back to what it was orginally chambered for?
 
bobdbldr said:
but if it was 44-40 and rechambered/barreled to .38 sp does that mean you can change it to antique status or does the status still revert back to what it was orginally chambered for?
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if it started out as a 44-40 with a short barrel; say 4", it would have been considered modern and prohib even if made before 1898. If you rebarreled it to 39 special it would become antique or registered depending on the date of manufacture. If the 44-40 barrel was short then it would have to be destroyed because it is a prohibited device. If it was made after 1898 and you rebarreled it to 38 spec, it would become restricted but if you then parted it out so that the barrel left the frame, the BC provincial firearms office would block the transfer because they would say that it returned to prohibited when the barrel was removed. That is policy, not law, but since the province must approve a transfer, they can do whatever they want. That is part of the reason for the CSSA challenging Ontario's Wyatt in Court. The extension of the policy is that the current owner would have to either rebarrel to restricted or destroy the frame because the policy means that the owner would be considered to be creating a new prohib when they removed the barrel.

cheers mooncoon
 
He was clear in his explanation and conviction, however I'm not a lawyer so who to believe. Hypothetical scenario, lets say I get a pre 1898 lets make it a Colt 1873 SAA made in 1885 in .455. Its an antique, but lets say the barrel is completely hosed, ever better yet bent like a U from Canada Post. I still get the antique letter. I then get a new 45 Colt barrel. 45 Colt is not an approved calibre for antique. According to the cop, if I put the new barrel on the gun, the antique status is void and the gun becomes an unregistered restricted handgun. Is he wrong? Anyone have legal reference saying that an antique can be converted to shoot non antique ammo? Love to see the look on his face if I can prove him wrong:p
 
johnl said:
He was clear in his explanation and conviction, however I'm not a lawyer so who to believe. Hypothetical scenario, lets say I get a pre 1898 lets make it a Colt 1873 SAA made in 1885 in .455. Its an antique, but lets say the barrel is completely hosed, ever better yet bent like a U from Canada Post. I still get the antique letter. I then get a new 45 Colt barrel. 45 Colt is not an approved calibre for antique. According to the cop, if I put the new barrel on the gun, the antique status is void and the gun becomes an unregistered restricted handgun. Is he wrong? Anyone have legal reference saying that an antique can be converted to shoot non antique ammo? Love to see the look on his face if I can prove him wrong:p
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Who to Believe ?? Just show him the Antique regs as they are now there in the Stickys in this BP section ^^ he is confused if he thinks the barrel makes the cartridge the gun uses its the Cylinder and its chambers that decide that and what cartridge its chambered for not the barrel. in a single shot pistol its still the chamber that decides this.
he needs to read the regs as they are now not pre 1990s stuff.
some antique revolvers dont even have barrels LOL that will really confuse the guy .

A 455 Cartridge and a 45 colt can use the exact same barrel and bore but the long 45 colt will not chamber in a 455 cylinders chamber so again he is wrong.
Id not even bother trying to show or convince him of anything because if he thinks like that you wont change his mind anyway maby another better informed cop will,,, otherwise only a prosecutor will do that when he charges some poor guy based on what he thinks he knows to be the laws.
Ive sold lots of antiques to cops that understand the way this antique thing works your friend needs to get with the times we dont need cops running about decideing what they think are the firearms laws of Canada.
all he needs to do is read the stickys and firearms regs as they are printed. or talk to a firearms tec at the canadian firearms center they should set him in the right direction,,, yikes!
 
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