My word...it wasnt even a Norinco
- Thread starter yomomma
- Start date
For quite a number of years I was into the M14-style platform and owned half a dozen or so Norcs both modded and basic out of the box, a M1A Loaded and a hybrid built on a mystery receiver that I now know to have been an early Springfield. I always found them to be fun rifles and considered the Norcs to be excellent value for the dollar (but I cautioned against spending lots of money on a Norc as those costs would not likely be recovered upon resale).
I've been out of the M14 style of rifle for a while but, of course, once an M14 fan always a fan and I'm always tempted to get another but having seen the increase in the number of reported incidents of potentially dangerous failures in the current batch of Norinco M14's I would now, personally, steer clear of them. That isn't being a rifle snob or anything it is, to me, just common sense. So until I can justify a M1A or a LRB I will, when the urge strikes to shoot an iconic military rifle, stick with shooting the M14's predecessor - the M1 Garand - or any one of my many milsurp bolt action rifles or, indeed, my SKS'.
I've been out of the M14 style of rifle for a while but, of course, once an M14 fan always a fan and I'm always tempted to get another but having seen the increase in the number of reported incidents of potentially dangerous failures in the current batch of Norinco M14's I would now, personally, steer clear of them. That isn't being a rifle snob or anything it is, to me, just common sense. So until I can justify a M1A or a LRB I will, when the urge strikes to shoot an iconic military rifle, stick with shooting the M14's predecessor - the M1 Garand - or any one of my many milsurp bolt action rifles or, indeed, my SKS'.
Just making the point that your bias against Norinco's was formed by personal experiences which were beyond a nusance and quite dangerous. In fact if I read you correctly your "crusade" is motivated by the genuine concern for others safety. Quite noble when you considder such an opinion is not with the majority here and makes one less than popular.
As a long time M14 fan (I bought 3 USGI M14's back in the mid 80's when they were non-restricted and under $400!) I'll give you my 2 cents worth.
Back in the day I shot thousands of rounds through my USGI converted auto M14's here in Canada when 20 round mags were legal, and life was good! When the silly laws got changed making my fav rifle a 12(3) prohib I considered buying a Springfield M1A. What I ended up doing was building on Norinco receivers using all USGI parts. I've also handled and shot SA M1A's, and an LRB...they are very nice rifles/receivers indeed, but they don't shoot any better than the guns I've built on the Norinco receivers...neither did my real M14's back when they were allowed to leave the house. I was lucky in that I bought a few extra USGI barrels, bolts etc years ago when they were much cheaper and easier to find. I just recently built an M14 with the last of my virgin USGI (TRW) parts...I could have gone with an LRB receiver, but didn't see any point in spending the extra $$...every rifle I've built on a Norc receiver (usually with the help of Thomas M14 Doc) has gone together smoothly, and this one was no different. It is so smooth, rings like a bell and is very accurate...I couldn't be happier.
My experience with Norinco's has been pretty good...a few crooked flash hiders/sights...a few mushy rear sights (but not all)...a few under/over indexed barrels...but no kabooms or big failures. Considering the low price, I knew that I might have to do a bit of tweaking...but I like tweaking rifles! It's very satisfying when you work on something yourself and great results are the outcome! If you are a total newb with no mechanical skills then maybe a Norc is not the best choice for you unless you're willing to learn (go to one of Thomas's or Hungry's M14 clinics!) or can afford to have your Norc tweaked by someone who knows what they are doing. I can tell you this...a friend of mine just bought a Norc shorty from the new batch...the barrel was slightly over indexed, but it ran very well and was quite accurate out of the box. I straightened out the barrel for him at Thomas's last M14 clinic...it runs even better now and my friend is happy as a clam. YMMV.
If you can afford a SA M1A or LRB etc...go for it! If you can afford (and find!) USGI/LRB etc. parts to build on a Norc receiver...do it! If you want to buy a new Norc M14s (M305) here's what I suggest...go somewhere where you can choose one in person. Check for barrel index, is the flash hider/front sight square?, gas cylinder alignment, and rear sight function...find the one with the smoothest action out of the bunch, buy it and shoot it! If you're scared, hide under the bench while you (safely!...lol!) empty the first few mags!...or you could always buy a used Norc off the EE that has already been shot/de-bugged...then you should be good to go.
These rifles are a joy to own and shoot...if you want one, pick the best you can afford and get one! (or 2!)
Back in the day I shot thousands of rounds through my USGI converted auto M14's here in Canada when 20 round mags were legal, and life was good! When the silly laws got changed making my fav rifle a 12(3) prohib I considered buying a Springfield M1A. What I ended up doing was building on Norinco receivers using all USGI parts. I've also handled and shot SA M1A's, and an LRB...they are very nice rifles/receivers indeed, but they don't shoot any better than the guns I've built on the Norinco receivers...neither did my real M14's back when they were allowed to leave the house. I was lucky in that I bought a few extra USGI barrels, bolts etc years ago when they were much cheaper and easier to find. I just recently built an M14 with the last of my virgin USGI (TRW) parts...I could have gone with an LRB receiver, but didn't see any point in spending the extra $$...every rifle I've built on a Norc receiver (usually with the help of Thomas M14 Doc) has gone together smoothly, and this one was no different. It is so smooth, rings like a bell and is very accurate...I couldn't be happier.
My experience with Norinco's has been pretty good...a few crooked flash hiders/sights...a few mushy rear sights (but not all)...a few under/over indexed barrels...but no kabooms or big failures. Considering the low price, I knew that I might have to do a bit of tweaking...but I like tweaking rifles! It's very satisfying when you work on something yourself and great results are the outcome! If you are a total newb with no mechanical skills then maybe a Norc is not the best choice for you unless you're willing to learn (go to one of Thomas's or Hungry's M14 clinics!) or can afford to have your Norc tweaked by someone who knows what they are doing. I can tell you this...a friend of mine just bought a Norc shorty from the new batch...the barrel was slightly over indexed, but it ran very well and was quite accurate out of the box. I straightened out the barrel for him at Thomas's last M14 clinic...it runs even better now and my friend is happy as a clam. YMMV.
If you can afford a SA M1A or LRB etc...go for it! If you can afford (and find!) USGI/LRB etc. parts to build on a Norc receiver...do it! If you want to buy a new Norc M14s (M305) here's what I suggest...go somewhere where you can choose one in person. Check for barrel index, is the flash hider/front sight square?, gas cylinder alignment, and rear sight function...find the one with the smoothest action out of the bunch, buy it and shoot it! If you're scared, hide under the bench while you (safely!...lol!) empty the first few mags!...or you could always buy a used Norc off the EE that has already been shot/de-bugged...then you should be good to go.
These rifles are a joy to own and shoot...if you want one, pick the best you can afford and get one! (or 2!)
Last edited:
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My mistake, get a bit touchy with all the bristling about. BongoBob has a good point, if shopping Norc, buy a "proved" one. The ones from a few years ago seem better by all accounts, especially given the recent flare up of issues reported. I don't remember nearly as many five years ago.
I mean no offence ardent.
I know your just trying to help.
but I see it as you are blowing it out of proportion a bit.
you make it sound like every m305 is going to maim injure or kill the shooter and in every post its the same!
of the x amount of thousand or should I say tens of thousand norks how many have KABOOM'D?
I have no idea of the number? but if its 50 or 100 that's still way under 1%
and I do understand were talking about something that has the potential to hurt or kill the shooter or bystanders!
BUT any time you take a firearm into your hands you should know that there is that risk! there is always a risk of something going wrong! 400$ nork or billion dollar whatever rifle! they all can go kaboom!!
I personaly have the dreaded 2012 model in long barrel and ive put upwards of 3000 rnd through her in the last few months! not a hiccup!
I totally agree with you previous statement that you get what you pay for! it true if somebody thinks there getting springfield or lrb quality from a nork well they shouldn't have a rifle in there hands any way!!
I just feel you may be turning people off of the platform all together! and that's not right!!! we need more people buying and enjoying these rifles!!
if you want to help/warn people why not tell them to buy from a stand up vendor with a warrenty! have the vendor or a smith take a good look at the rifle!
if im way off base here guys let me know! haha I have been called crazy before!
I think we can all agree, the newest ones, well, I'd hesitate so that says somethin... But I have seen quite a few nice ones as well.
I feel like maybe I've been a little too "crusadish" as well with my reactions to recent events. But I still believe that there is no need to spread panic.
I wish there was a way to glean information from importers on the percentage of return due to being dangerous rifles, ie: not your usual flaws but actual defects like broken bolts, sheared hammer hooks, busted bolt rollers, safety bridge deformaties , receiver dimension flaws or cracked barrel and gas cylinders. Would be an interesting read but sadly I doubt we could get the dealers/importers to cooperate on that idea hehehe
I think in the end we would all want each other to be safe and get good value out of our time enjoying our firearms.
The norincos remain a good buy and we all agree that the older (2009 and past) seem to be more desireable.
I'll turn the a hole off and we can all get back to a happy medium.
I feel like maybe I've been a little too "crusadish" as well with my reactions to recent events. But I still believe that there is no need to spread panic.
I wish there was a way to glean information from importers on the percentage of return due to being dangerous rifles, ie: not your usual flaws but actual defects like broken bolts, sheared hammer hooks, busted bolt rollers, safety bridge deformaties , receiver dimension flaws or cracked barrel and gas cylinders. Would be an interesting read but sadly I doubt we could get the dealers/importers to cooperate on that idea hehehe
I think in the end we would all want each other to be safe and get good value out of our time enjoying our firearms.
The norincos remain a good buy and we all agree that the older (2009 and past) seem to be more desireable.
I'll turn the a hole off and we can all get back to a happy medium.
All of us have our dicks still on... What's not to like?
Just git out there and shoot whatever you own, better yet, join your local PRA (Prov Rifle Association) and shoot in competition. Step up your game and focus on performance (well, after focusing on tweaking). So step up and throw down some good scores! Don't step down and throw up!
Cheers,
Barney
What's not to like?Just git out there and shoot whatever you own, better yet, join your local PRA (Prov Rifle Association) and shoot in competition. Step up your game and focus on performance (well, after focusing on tweaking). So step up and throw down some good scores! Don't step down and throw up!
Cheers,
Barney
That doubling problem is probably no fault of the rifle. If you're active in wherever that's from just mention that a full follow-through on the trigger might clear it up - some bolt shooters are too light with the trigger finger when first shooting semi-auto battle rifles and inadvertently double-tap due to recoil.
Then there is a whole new thread about current issues with American made stuff
http://m14forum.com/modern-m14/1414...-smith-enterprise-customer-service-rocks.html
http://m14forum.com/modern-m14/1414...-smith-enterprise-customer-service-rocks.html
Last edited:
Pop, yes you are correct, this is a common issue with "new to the platform" people
but
Well ...... I can see where this thread is heading LOL
Such shocking quality control and from such a reputable manufacturer.
Norinco doesn't have the copyright on sh%t..........At least they don't pretend to be the best
It's funny, I've been reading about all this stuff for a few years now. It Does show that a combination of reloader error, shooter error or defective rifle/parts is something that affects all "brands" of the platform. Kinda why I jump on the anti norc crusaders so much.
Doing research on the platform since commercial variants entered the marketplace, every single producer of the semi auto only m14 have had major issues at one point or another.
Including but not limitted to:
Springfield armory
Smith enterprise
7.62mmfirearms
LRB
Norinco/polytech
And at least one small outfit that did a reproduction receiver
From all these manufacturers products come a great many fantastic rifles, a smaller number of marginal rifles and thankfully, an even smaller number of catastrophies.
I remember the first LRB built rifle I layed hands on, oh, musta been near 6 years ago now and certainly one of the first into Canada. It was not built right at all. Out of index barrel, very poorly fitted oprod and little things. It left my bench in happiness however
As in all things we spend our cash on, it pays to do your research
Doing research on the platform since commercial variants entered the marketplace, every single producer of the semi auto only m14 have had major issues at one point or another.
Including but not limitted to:
Springfield armory
Smith enterprise
7.62mmfirearms
LRB
Norinco/polytech
And at least one small outfit that did a reproduction receiver
From all these manufacturers products come a great many fantastic rifles, a smaller number of marginal rifles and thankfully, an even smaller number of catastrophies.
I remember the first LRB built rifle I layed hands on, oh, musta been near 6 years ago now and certainly one of the first into Canada. It was not built right at all. Out of index barrel, very poorly fitted oprod and little things. It left my bench in happiness however
As in all things we spend our cash on, it pays to do your research
