Looking for a Mauser of the type used by Turks at Gallipoli...
- Thread starter Fazakerley
- Start date
Turkey made several large purchases of Mauser-type rifles in the years before WWI. These followed on several years of following the British example in firearms.
At the time of the Russo-Turkish War (1876-77) they were using mainly Turkish Sniders and American-built "Peabodys" with the Martini trigger mech: almost identical to the British Martini-Henry. There are photos of huge heaps of these captured by the British, heaped up before burning.
Turkey then bought the 1887 Mauser: tube-magazine repeater same as the German 1871/84, just using the Turkish 9,5mm cartridge.
Everything changed once smokeless powder came in. Turkey bought Model 1890 Mausers (protruding magazine, prototype for the 1891 Argentine) then some of the very new 1892s (double-column internal mag, ####-on-close bolt).
They ordered the mid-length 98-action 1903 and that was their basic modern rifle in WWI. ALL of these early rifles were in 7.65x54.
During WWI they also received aid from Germany in the form of large numbers of 1888 Commission rifles, these with the S, Z and '14 updates: loaded with the same Charger as a 98, rethroated for the pointed, fatter bullet, no need for Mannlicher clips. These included 1888 and 1888nm rifles both: regular and reinforced barrels; I have both. They also received quantities of German Gew 98 rifles. These all were in 7.92x57JS.
Standard British practice was to turn Turkish prisoners loose to find their way home but to burn the rifles.
When the War ended, the new Turkish Republic under Kemal Pasha was flat broke, had lost a lot of territory and still was industrially rudimentary. In th 1930s all the older rifles were reworked into 7.92x57 calibre, some restocked, some rebarrelled, some both...... and the old Imperial TUGHRAS were ground off and replaced with TC-and-a-Crescent: Turkish Republic. From the wreckage of some of the German 1888s came a NEW rifle, distinctly Turkish: the 1888/35: Commission rifle action, heavy 29-inch barrel, new stock. These are VERY NICE shooters. And there was also the new Turkish Model 38: basically a 98 Mauser, produced until after WW2.
I would think the best place to look for an unmolested Turk rifle would be in Australia; they were in the fight the longest and had a more relaxed attitude toward souvenirs..... and they have had less gun bans than Merrie Olde England. The Newfies were in only long enough to cover the Aussie/British pull-out and then were shipped straight to the Meat Grinder on the Western Front: no time or space for souvenirs.
As to most of the rifles which were actually THERE, most have been reworked, are in Canada and do NOT command high prices. This includes 1892 and 1903 rifles, also Commission rifles with Turk AND German markings, a few 98s. Also in Canada are Turk 88/35s (which generally are despised) and Turk Model 38s, but these both are post-Great-War. You can feed them all with 8mm Mauser ammo and they will gobble it up but they are sighted for the original JS loading: 154-grain pointed bullet at 2880 ft/sec.
OCCASIONALLY a Turkish "Peabody" shows up still with Imperial markings, generally identified as a "Martini" (which it was), sometimes as a "Turkish Martini-Henry" (which it was not). These bring big dollars and finding ammo for them is a PITA. Likely there will still be a few of these in some Balkan arsenal, along with a rack of Turkish Sniders.
Hope this helps a bit.
At the time of the Russo-Turkish War (1876-77) they were using mainly Turkish Sniders and American-built "Peabodys" with the Martini trigger mech: almost identical to the British Martini-Henry. There are photos of huge heaps of these captured by the British, heaped up before burning.
Turkey then bought the 1887 Mauser: tube-magazine repeater same as the German 1871/84, just using the Turkish 9,5mm cartridge.
Everything changed once smokeless powder came in. Turkey bought Model 1890 Mausers (protruding magazine, prototype for the 1891 Argentine) then some of the very new 1892s (double-column internal mag, ####-on-close bolt).
They ordered the mid-length 98-action 1903 and that was their basic modern rifle in WWI. ALL of these early rifles were in 7.65x54.
During WWI they also received aid from Germany in the form of large numbers of 1888 Commission rifles, these with the S, Z and '14 updates: loaded with the same Charger as a 98, rethroated for the pointed, fatter bullet, no need for Mannlicher clips. These included 1888 and 1888nm rifles both: regular and reinforced barrels; I have both. They also received quantities of German Gew 98 rifles. These all were in 7.92x57JS.
Standard British practice was to turn Turkish prisoners loose to find their way home but to burn the rifles.
When the War ended, the new Turkish Republic under Kemal Pasha was flat broke, had lost a lot of territory and still was industrially rudimentary. In th 1930s all the older rifles were reworked into 7.92x57 calibre, some restocked, some rebarrelled, some both...... and the old Imperial TUGHRAS were ground off and replaced with TC-and-a-Crescent: Turkish Republic. From the wreckage of some of the German 1888s came a NEW rifle, distinctly Turkish: the 1888/35: Commission rifle action, heavy 29-inch barrel, new stock. These are VERY NICE shooters. And there was also the new Turkish Model 38: basically a 98 Mauser, produced until after WW2.
I would think the best place to look for an unmolested Turk rifle would be in Australia; they were in the fight the longest and had a more relaxed attitude toward souvenirs..... and they have had less gun bans than Merrie Olde England. The Newfies were in only long enough to cover the Aussie/British pull-out and then were shipped straight to the Meat Grinder on the Western Front: no time or space for souvenirs.
As to most of the rifles which were actually THERE, most have been reworked, are in Canada and do NOT command high prices. This includes 1892 and 1903 rifles, also Commission rifles with Turk AND German markings, a few 98s. Also in Canada are Turk 88/35s (which generally are despised) and Turk Model 38s, but these both are post-Great-War. You can feed them all with 8mm Mauser ammo and they will gobble it up but they are sighted for the original JS loading: 154-grain pointed bullet at 2880 ft/sec.
OCCASIONALLY a Turkish "Peabody" shows up still with Imperial markings, generally identified as a "Martini" (which it was), sometimes as a "Turkish Martini-Henry" (which it was not). These bring big dollars and finding ammo for them is a PITA. Likely there will still be a few of these in some Balkan arsenal, along with a rack of Turkish Sniders.
Hope this helps a bit.
IIRC, Turkish Model 38's were among the least-desired "Model 98 type" Mauser rifles, in terms of sporterizing.....
...something to do with "action-to-barrel" fit?On the bright side, that means there are potentially more of these rifles "unmolested", full-trim and less-expensively floating about.....
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/turkishmausers.pdf
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I have one. Original M1903, all matching, unissued in 7.65 mm. It is the only one i have come across. I don't think it is what you are looking for as it would take a fair bit of money to claw it from my Mauser addicted hands !!!!
If you ever DO want to sell that one 4b1t, pm me first. I pay top dollar.
As I was just explaining to Claven2 via PM (as he desperately manoeuvers to be included in my Will !!!!
), it came via the US about 20 years ago. If you look closely you can see a lead pattern seal attached to the rear swivel. The closest translation is "Armoury". This is the only clue as to why it was never issued and avoided the endless Turk refurb process. It is all matching down to the last screw.PS Nabs. My apologies for delays, there is a G98 heading to a certain individual, had trouble finding a box !!!!!
@4b1t:
Whatever you do, don't let that gorgeous specimen get too close to me! I likely would drool all over it and the poor thing might rust!
However did you score such a MAGNIFICENT beast?
Could you be so kind as to post some close-ups for those of us who will never see one?
Thanks for showing!
Whatever you do, don't let that gorgeous specimen get too close to me! I likely would drool all over it and the poor thing might rust!
However did you score such a MAGNIFICENT beast?
Could you be so kind as to post some close-ups for those of us who will never see one?
Thanks for showing!
Use Google, for example, I used "WW1 Gallipoli Turkish pictures", which led to such sites as;
http://www.anzacwebsites.com/gallipoli/photos.htm
http://www.anzacwebsites.com/gallipoli/photos.htm
