Changing my mind about my first bigger rifle, opinions please.

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a_n_o_n

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Hi All,

Here is the situation. I was very committed to buying a rifle in .308 Win, due to availability of cheap Chinese ammo to practice with. Even made a previous post about it here.

The problems started when my girlfriend bought a T3 Hunter, 30-06. It's a really lovely rifle, but it really brought home how rough the cheaper R700 action was. The second problem is that I am picky... I want a detachable mag, which the R700 Tac doesn't have. So an R700 Tac would need bottom metal, + mags, just to have the functionality I'd want. It would also still have the rougher action of the value level Remington rifles. So I looked at the Tikka Varmints, but I can't find the intro model, only the stainless which is quite a bit more money (~ 1100 vs 650) and I'd still need an optic, bases, and rings. That's starting to get up there, especially for a rifle I want to run thousands of cheap dirty rounds through + the seasonal hunting load.

I don't want to buy something I won't be happy with. At the same time I was really honest with myself and decided to prioritize my desires for this season:

1. I want to go hunting. Around here that means white tail, mule deer, possibly black bear. Later on it will mean elk and moose, but if I'm being honest that probably won't happen for me this season.

2. I want an accurate long(er) range rifle to practice with, to hunt with, to whatever with.

I realized that I didn't need to try and do it all at once... if what I want to do is hunt this season, maybe I should look at a great deer rifle and put my energy there (especially since it's already mid July) and worry about building a tactical/precision rifle in the spring.

The idea hit me while I was browsing online stores... what about a level action in 30-30 ? I really like the Marlins, they can take a moderate optic and are great for deer out to about 200 yards (from what I've read) and maybe a bit further with good leverevolution rounds.

This idea has several benefits as I see it.

1. I can get either of the Marlins I was looking at for 500 - 600 bucks, add a moderate optic and be done. No worrying about mods or stocks or actions or whatever.

2. I can go hunting for my likely game at reasonable ranges. Since my gf and I will hunt together, she'll have her T3 if anything does come up at longer ranges that we want to shoot or if we decide to take a road-trip out for larger game this year.

3. Between us we would have a set of hunting guns to tackle anything we might want (my 12 ga, my .22lr, my 30-30, her 30-06)


Anyway, thoughts on this? How do you guys feel about 30-30 for a novice hunter? How do you feel about Marlins? I like the following model:

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/centerfire/336BL.asp

What are your guys' thoughts on the 18.5 " barrel instead of the 20" ? Or the loop lever, will it be hard to cycle without gloves on? Does anyone have one of these or the basic 336 and wants to comment ? I was also looking at the basic 336 (20" barrel, normal lever)

I know this has been long, but it's helped me work things out in my own mind, so thanks. If you're still with me I'd certainly value your opinions.
 
You can get a CZ in .308 with a detachable mag. Really nice gun. I haven't used a 30-30 for hunting anything bigger than ground squirrels... A lot of people that have said it's a great 200 yard gun... I also hear that a 45-70 is a great hunting round for anything 250 yards in north america...
 
You're not making any sense to me, no offence, but you're turning down the Remington specifically because it doesn't have a detachable magazine and then you're seriously considering a 336 marlin? Why not go for the best of both worlds and get a BLR or Savage 99c in 308. Then you have the lever, in 308 with detachable magazine......................
 
The fascination with detachable magazines goes away in time for all but the most the most serious road hunters. Wouldn't be a deciding factor for me. Lots of other things to consider first.
 
Here's what you do, leave your credit card at home go to one of the gun shops and manhandle as many rifles as you can before they kick you out. Then sleep on it a couple of days. Maybe your mind will change a few times and then buy what you want not what everyone else tells you should have.
 
You're not making any sense to me, no offence, but you're turning down the Remington specifically because it doesn't have a detachable magazine and then you're seriously considering a 336 marlin? Why not go for the best of both worlds and get a BLR or Savage 99c in 308. Then you have the lever, in 308 with detachable magazine......................
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Not precisely. I realized I had two goals, as accurate a rifle as I could find in my price envelope, 400 - 500 yard capable, .308 so I could learn to shoot it, heavy barrel, etc... basically an entry level precision rifle platform that could be upgraded over time as the need arose.

The R700 tactical was one rifle that fit the bill, however the action was somewhat clunky to begin with and only felt more so after handling the Tikka. Since I knew I was going to be doing a very high volume of rounds, the detachable mag looked more and more appealing, and also offers the potential for larger capacity. The Tikka Varmint is another that fit my requirements, but I could not find one anywhere. The Tikka stainless was bit too much money, if I'm in that price range I'd rather wait and save a bit more for something more role specific.

Essentially I rejected the Remington because I'd have to pay several hundred dollars for a detachable mag, and even if I upgraded the stock (which is not held in high regard online) I'd still be left with an entry-level action. A pig in a dress is still a pig.

Having split my goals I realized I could have a good 200 yard deer gun for quite reasonable money and then, in the spring, look at the precision rifle situation once again. Find a good mid-level platform and shoot the barrel out of it until I know my way around the 500 yard game... but that's a different post.


Here's what you do, leave your credit card at home go to one of the gun shops and manhandle as many rifles as you can before they kick you out. Then sleep on it a couple of days. Maybe your mind will change a few times and then buy what you want not what everyone else tells you should have.
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This is what I did when I went looking for bolt rifles. My local store is very very friendly and patient... which is why I've bought all my firearms there, as has my girlfriend even though it has cost us a bit more money. I didn't spend any time looking at the lever actions though. I'm headed there this afternoon to do this very thing.

Ultimately I will end up doing/buying what I feel is right, I'm good that way. At the same time - even though I've spent hundreds of hours reading and consuming all the firearms / hunting knowledge I can find - I have yet to actually go hunting... and so more data (your opinions) is of value to me. Especially new information, like how Remington bought Marlin and the first few years there were quality issues. I wouldn't have known this unless I read it elsewhere in the forum. The whole "buy x cartridge because it worked y times" doesn't hold much sway with me, but it is another data point. The "I've hunted deer in your area for years and can speak first hand that 170 grain 30-30 is good/better than the 150 grain on our deer" holds much more value to me, for obvious reasons... unfortunately those kind of educated responses are hard to come by online :p
 
a_n_o_n said:
even though I've spent hundreds of hours reading and consuming all the firearms / hunting knowledge I can find - I have yet to actually go hunting... and so more data (your opinions) is of value to me.
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I admire your research in trying to gain an understanding in what you are wanting. I suspect that you have gone into some stores and fondled some rifles...but never shot them. You have studied ballistics charts...but never shot them. The second issue, is that you are expecting a gold plated rifle for $500. You want a detachable magazine.

My advice - buy a rifle on the EE. If your heart is set on new, then buy a Savage, a Ruger American or Remington 783. With used, there is a Parker Hale on the EE right now. I bought an awesome Midland (entry level PH and a Safari model (with sights) on the EE and discovered the barrel & rifling dimensions were better than some brand new rifles on the market. I bought an Enfield in 303 and have not ever regretted it. Tradex has some great Huskies for sale too, especially the uber accurate 6.5 (well maybe not uber, but certainly has an inherent accuracy). My advice is skip the magazine desire. I had that once, and once I lost a few in the bush paying $60 to replace, I quickly adopted a fondness for a floorplate.

I have a Marlin 336 and it is a great rifle - I kept the irons on it, but it is not my principle hunting rifle as the ballistics or the range are not as good as the 308, 303 or 30-06. Once you shoot them, you will discover this little fact at about 300 yards.
 
A lever action is most definitely not a precision rifle platform.

I'm confused how you can justify a tube magazine but not a hinged floor plate when you originally wanted a detachable magazine. You went from the most convenient to the most awkward in one leap....if ease of loading and unloading is your goal.

Lots of good bolt actions in your price range...I'd spend some time handling a few.
 
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a_n_o_n said:
Essentially I rejected the Remington because I'd have to pay several hundred dollars for a detachable mag, and even if I upgraded the stock (which is not held in high regard online) I'd still be left with an entry-level action. A pig in a dress is still a pig.
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I didn't realize that the Remington 700 action was an "entry-level action". A lot of people have been fooled!
 
sobo4303 said:
I admire your research in trying to gain an understanding in what you are wanting. I suspect that you have gone into some stores and fondled some rifles...but never shot them. You have studied ballistics charts...but never shot them. The second issue, is that you are expecting a gold plated rifle for $500. You want a detachable magazine.


I have a Marlin 336 and it is a great rifle - I kept the irons on it, but it is not my principle hunting rifle as the ballistics or the range are not as good as the 308, 303 or 30-06. Once you shoot them, you will discover this little fact at about 300 yards.
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While I appreciate your attempt to empathize with me, you are somewhat off base. I have spent hours in my local store looking at rifles, yes. I have also spent hours more with other rifles at the range, whenever possible. I have some formal training as well as experience with my own firearms and those of my friends. Of course I wish we had a greater variety, but we have what we have. My marksmanship is not an issue, nor is my understanding of things like ballistics. I simply lack a wide pool of experience with a bunch of different guns... something I am trying to remedy.

I do not expect a gold plated rifle for $500, nor would I want one. What I do expect is to buy something I am happy with. Yes, I want a detachable mag. I also want a bull barrel. A decent stock would be nice too. I don't mind paying for these things. What I realized was that I didn't want to spend a bunch of money (over time) to upgrade something that would still be, at its core, an entry level rifle. What I also realized was that I didn't need to go find that rifle in order to get something that I could take hunting this fall.

Unfortunately I do not have anyone to teach me to hunt and so I have had to educated myself. Since everyone has their own opinion (and is very convinced of its correctness) I attempt to gather all the data I can, take it with a grain of salt, and then make the best decision based on the information I have.... if you know a better way to learn something on your own, by all means let me know :)
 
A lever action is most definitely not a precision rifle platform.

I'm confused how you can justify a tube magazine but not a hinged floor plate when you originally wanted a detachable magazine. You went from the most convenient to the most awkward in one leap....if ease of loading and unloading is your goal.

Lots of good bolt actions in your price range...I'd spend some time handling a few.
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I feel like perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough. Yes I wanted a precision platform and on that platform I wanted a detachable magazine.

When I threw out the idea of getting into that type of rifle right now, I came up with the idea of just getting something to go deer hunting with... which led me to the idea of a lever action 30-30.

I do realize a lever action is a very different type of rifle and I won't be trying to use it in a precision role. It'll be my short range deer gun.
 
There is a cool factor to lever actions and I've got a few but from reading about your shooting interests and your skill level and your desire for precision, I can't help but think that you'd be better served with a decent quality bolt action but hey, it's your money and I'd never try to talk anyone out of buying a gun. I'm sure you'll have fun with whatever you choose.
 
bcsteve said:
I didn't realize that the Remington 700 action was an "entry-level action". A lot of people have been fooled!
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If you are going to be asinine then you may as well not post.

If you read the thread you will find that I was comparing an entry level Remington 700 at about $500 to a Tikka worth more than double. They are not even close in finish, machining detail, or smoothness...which is what I was talking about.

If you go handle a bunch of different Remington 700's, as I have been doing over the last couple weeks, you would realize they do in fact make their firearms in a number of different finishes and trims to meet the various price tiers. When I start looking at Remingtons worth over a thousand dollars, the actions are much smoother and better finished, as one would expect.

Classifying an entire product range based off my comment about one (entry level) model in that range is silly.
 
Just a quick thought even though it seems like your mind is quite made up, I hunted deer with my bull barrelled 308 for a number of years and recently picked up a Weatherby Vanguard. Now when I pick up my 308 I realize that the thing is damn heavy and I don't know why I lugged it all over the woods for all that time. The Vanguard is way easier to carry and very nearly as accurate as long as you aren't planning on firing a box or two of ammo in quick succession. Heavy guns don't make the best hunting guns IMHO, unless you have a short walk into a comfortable blind/stand. At any rate, hope you have fun with your new toy, whatever it ends up being!
 
Heck, I'm beginning to wonder how I can lug my Vanguard around; after 6-7 hrs it does start to feel like an anchor...

To the OP, yes, the 336 will do what you want; just beware that quality has, reportedly, declined a bit as of late.

If I were you I'd do the following: forget for a bit all the technical data about floor plate/twist, weight, etc and just try out as many rifles as you can at the store; pick the 2-3 you prefer and then do your research on them to make your final decision. You have several options in the sub $600 / $800 / $1000. Set your budget straight, then walk into the store with that firm idea and remember to leave $200-$300 for decent optics (trust me on this one).

Good thing is: it's hard to go wrong these days with pretty much any of the available brands; there are lemons from time to time but, on average, statics say that you'll be happy with whatever you choose.


Oh, and if you add your location, it will make it easier for local members to help you out in person :)

kennymo said:
Just a quick thought even though it seems like your mind is quite made up, I hunted deer with my bull barrelled 308 for a number of years and recently picked up a Weatherby Vanguard. Now when I pick up my 308 I realize that the thing is damn heavy and I don't know why I lugged it all over the woods for all that time. The Vanguard is way easier to carry and very nearly as accurate as long as you aren't planning on firing a box or two of ammo in quick succession. Heavy guns don't make the best hunting guns IMHO, unless you have a short walk into a comfortable blind/stand. At any rate, hope you have fun with your new toy, whatever it ends up being!
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Am I the only person on here that thinks you need more than one rifle?

If you want a hunting rifle then decide what features you want/need/like and go from there. I wouldn't personally buy a lever for my only hunting rifle, btu they are undeniably cool. For where you are and what you want to do I would have to say that your girlfriend has it figured out. Tikka 30-06 is a whole look of good news for a hunter. They're fairly light, accurate and smooth. The 30-06 is also a great all around choice for a hunting rifle in Western Canada. If there's one thing I know for sure it's this...you have a Tikka shooting, 30-06 using girlfriend.

As to the target shooting, there are so many choices in 308 out there it'll make your head spin. In that game it all boils down to budget. Buy very good to great glass and then put a solid rifle under it and you'll be happy. Cheap out on the glass and you'll regret it. Buy a rifle that has a good track record and be somewhat flexible on the features and you'll wind up happy.
 
Don't let the feel of the "entry Level" 700s fool you, they will smooth up in no time and you will have a far superior product in the end. For precision shooting there is no finer production action on the market, all you have to do go to a long range shoot or benchrest shoot and count the number of guns built on 700 actions, it will be 80%+. They are not near as crunchy as a new CZ for a lot more money or a Zastava for about the same money. Your wish for a detachable magazine I understand and is your choice, of coarse, the nice thing about the 700 Rem action is there are more aftermarket parts and conversions available than for all other types of actions put together. You can't do better for a precision platform than even an entry level 700. IMHO
 
Ok. Here's my suggestion. If you're looking for a reasonably priced rifle for this falls hunt then I would check out Tradeex. They have excellent used Husqvarna 1600 series rifles in .30-06. These are very high quality hunting rifles and with the addition of a good scope like a Leupold VX1 or something similar would last you the rest of your life and be more than adequate for the deer you plan on hunting now and the moose/elk planned in the future. I'd go with the .30-06 for its added versatility over the .30-30 and the fact your gf has one would simplify ammo needs.

Buy your precision rifle in the spring and you'll have a good start to a nice collection.
 
a_n_o_n said:
Not precisely. I realized I had two goals, as accurate a rifle as I could find in my price envelope, 400 - 500 yard capable, .308 so I could learn to shoot it, heavy barrel, etc... basically an entry level precision rifle platform that could be upgraded over time as the need arose.
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I have hunted BC for over 25 years, if you plan on hunting get the lightest and shortest rifle you are comfortable with and you are ready to take any game our province has to offer IMO. I have magnums, precision, tacticool, etc rifles and for hunting my go to gun for everything is a 20" barrel 308 steyr scout, light and very accurate. If I go for just moose it is a 9.3x62 in a sauer 202 outback, again 20" fluted barrel and the entire package is even lighter than the steyr 308.

Our terrain does not lend itself to long shots unless you purpously only hunt that way, pretty much every animal I have taken has been 75yds or less with most of those being under 50ft.
 
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