Unimpressed with the 1911... Am I missing some critical part of the experience?

[relliott]

Entertaining.
A 1911 was the 1st big semi I ever shot...well for about 6 rounds, then it jammed. But it was a range pistol in West Ed so perhaps that is an answer in itself.
I think I am prejudiced against the 1911 because of all the BS that gets thrown about when they get discussed. John Browning is a god...blah, blah, blah.
The 1st gun I could afford was a Norcinco made Tok ( hence the moniker). Everyone knows they are junk right? Oh but historically they are a simplified 1911 with a racy cartridge, so how do the 1911 boys get away with slagging them. POS even though the caliber can be changed in about 45 seconds; like click, clack, clunk...done. Can a 1911 even be stripped that fast?
That being said my moniker is slightly out of date as I've not shot that pistol in a while.
It just erks me when someone slags all other competing designs because they like a particular type.
Friendly joshing is fine but seriously...hardcore 1911 guys are like hardcore Harley guys, you don't really believe your own BS do you?
The next pistol I but will likely be a real Colt SAA; I've 3 old Colts now, so it can't be said I hate Colts.
If there's one thing I can't stand it's intolerant people, I just want to smash them! A little humour to finish things off with

I don't think anyone is slagging other designs here; for the most part they are actually stating their case for the 1911 and saying shoot what feels right for you. So it's quite the opposite in fact. I am seeing lots of 1911 slagging here though.

There are tons of great designs out there and great designers. Glock is certainly one of them. They are durable, well designed and simple to maintain.
In choosing any pistol it helps to define what its primary use will be and what you want it to do for you. That will help narrow down your short-list.

The 19/2011 pattern pistol is the most popular platform in IPSC competition because it is the one that has stood up the best over time. When you have guns shooting anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 rounds a year or more, it had better be pretty durable. This kind of hard use is going to show up any design flaws in a hurry, and if anything else had the balance of durability, functionality, ergonomics and trigger that these pistols have proven themselves to have over time then you'd better believe we'd be using it.

Is it the perfect gun choice for all uses? No, of course not. Is it an old technology? Yes and no. If you are talking about an old GI .45 then yes, it's definitely dated. If you are talking about a modern version with modern metallurgy and design/fit tolerance then it is a much more evolved animal. Same basic design, but updated. I would like to ditch that stupid grip safety though. I always deactivate my comp guns. If you are thinking in terms of duty guns, the 1911 is no longer a wise choice in our modern world. Single action triggers and legal systems do not a happy mixture make.

BTW: I can take a 1911 down to the small bits in less than a minute. Just sayin'....

 

[infidel29]

WHAT?????!! what are you, some kind of wussified he-she???? Thar aint no real man out thar that don' love the 1911!!!! That pistol is what happened when God took pity on us mere mortals and blessed us with his tears, and his tears fell to earth and became the mighty orgasm inducing 1911!!!

LOL!! for more 1911 hate, watch this video

 

[st1264]

I had a couple 1911's and liked them... just liked my Sig 220 and S&W 645 much better. My 1911's have been sold to people who enjoy them more. If you like them or you don't, move on with your life - there's something out there for everyone.

 

[dahs]

First handgun I ever shot was a Les Baer 1911. Fell in love. But have a hell of a lot more to try out before I say it's my favorite.

 

[ccain]

....I have a ruger sr1911 that I love 500+ rounds and zero failures, I also bought a cz shadow....

I have the same two pistols. I love shooting the SR1911. I think it's a very well made and very nice looking pistol. And, I feel the same about the Shadow.

However, I don't agree with the few statements by others in this thread about GSG's. To me, they are not 1911's. They are .22LR plinkers that happen to look and function like 1911's. Hell, I even have trouble thinking of 9mm 1911's as proper 1911's. Mind you, the other 50% of my love for the 1911 platform is it's history (as has already been mentioned).

 

[Nestor]

I had 9mm and 45 ACP 1911s.
They are still decent pistols, especially the newer offerings from S&W and SIG, but the biggest seller of 1911s is pure sentiment and aftermarket support.
I'm not finding 1911 as very ergonomic (contrary to the popular belief), but I sure can see that it is still one of the best looking guns out there.

 

[Waynetheman]

Figured the first post in here woulda been blasphemy! Followed by a swift banning.

 

[Waynetheman]

Would some of that"fairly recent European ancestry#" spent some time on the business end of a 1911? Just kidding.

It's got little to do with it being an old design, you like it or you don't, just the same as some like the S&W M&P over a glock or the glock over the M&P, It's preferences, a personal choice and tastes , what feels right to you, this isn't't the gun for you.
The 1911 does have a cult following that tend to make it out to be bigger then life.

Lol at this. Flawless.

 

[tjhaile]

...I mean WTF is wrong with it and how exactly do you drop the hammer after you #### it, oh yeah, two hands.

Pulling the trigger generally does the job.

I think that Browning should have stuck with an internal hammer, like on the 1903. This would have completely ruled out any possibility of Condition Two foolishness.

 

[mshundal]

I don't think anyone is slagging other designs here; for the most part they are actually stating their case for the 1911 and saying shoot what feels right for you. So it's quite the opposite in fact. I am seeing lots of 1911 slagging here though.

There are tons of great designs out there and great designers. Glock is certainly one of them. They are durable, well designed and simple to maintain.
In choosing any pistol it helps to define what its primary use will be and what you want it to do for you. That will help narrow down your short-list.

The 19/2011 pattern pistol is the most popular platform in IPSC competition because it is the one that has stood up the best over time. When you have guns shooting anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 rounds a year or more, it had better be pretty durable. This kind of hard use is going to show up any design flaws in a hurry, and if anything else had the balance of durability, functionality, ergonomics and trigger that these pistols have proven themselves to have over time then you'd better believe we'd be using it.

Is it the perfect gun choice for all uses? No, of course not. Is it an old technology? Yes and no. If you are talking about an old GI .45 then yes, it's definitely dated. If you are talking about a modern version with modern metallurgy and design/fit tolerance then it is a much more evolved animal. Same basic design, but updated. I would like to ditch that stupid grip safety though. I always deactivate my comp guns. If you are thinking in terms of duty guns, the 1911 is no longer a wise choice in our modern world. Single action triggers and legal systems do not a happy mixture make.

BTW: I can take a 1911 down to the small bits in less than a minute. Just sayin'....

rob common sense don't belong in this thread

 

[NAA]

Pulling the trigger generally does the job.

I think that Browning should have stuck with an internal hammer, like on the 1903. This would have completely ruled out any possibility of Condition Two foolishness.

I think when Browning was doing up the prototypes for the proposed military trials he did build them an internal hammer model.

I have seen a pic of one somewhere's anyway. However, the military specified their preference was for a exposed hammer model.

Hence, once all the testing was done & the prototypes tweaked [ie. M1910 .45ACP etc] we ended up with what became the first accepted version of the 1911.

Of course, with the exposed hammer, which we still have today.


----------
NAA.

 

[mcmack]

I too was unimpressed wih the 1911 platform. I shot a friends Paraordnance in 45acp. Nice pistol, fine quality, shot well, just didn't do anything for me. Someday I may own one, just not right now.

 

[claw808]

I never really liked the 1911 because of the grip safety and never really planned on getting one. I recently found a colt 1911 manufactured in 1943 and bought because I like Colts. The finish is a kinda of rough but its an accurate shooter, probably because a target sight rib was drilled and tapped onto the slide. I plan on getting it reblued.

A side question. I noticed that 1911 barrel links are teardrop shaped but on mine it has a notch at the back that sticks out. Is this an older version barrel link?

 

[CobraGT]

I've owned a few of them, from different manufacturers, including one set up for .45Super. They all worked well, but I, too,have never really felt the love for the platform. They're OK, but aside from the history, they're nothing special. I currently own a two-tone Israeli commander-length, as I like .45ACP and REALLY like .45Super, but when my HK45 arrives (hopefully in January), I'll probably sell the 1911. It's a beautiful gun, and was far ahead of its time when it was first produced, but the design is far from modern.

Comparing the 1911 to the HK45, I thought this was interesting, from an interview with Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn:

How would you compare the HK45 to a top-quality custom 1911?

Ken: You can buy an HK45, send it to Bowie and get the mods that Larry suggests — though with my hand size I don’t need them — and get Heinie sights. You’ve got a pistol one half or even one third the price of a top 1911 pistol today that is more reliable and every bit as accurate. For most anybody I can imagine if you said you need a pistol to stake your life on and you’re going to be someplace you can’t run to a pistolsmith every time you need it, if your choice is between an HK45 and a 1911 and you don’t take the HK45, you’re ****’ing brain dead.

Larry: Yeah, I agree 100%. Ken is spot on. For the average guy, it’s a far better choice. The 1911 is an enthusiast’s pistols. In order to keep that gun running you have to, it’s not optional, you have to become your own armorer to a degree. You have to be able to diagnose and fix minor problems on an end user level. If you’re not willing to sign up for that, frankly you have no business running a 1911 for anything other than occasional recreational shooting. If you’re going to put yourself in harm’s way with that gun and you’re not willing to sign up for that, then you need to avoid it. The HK45 is clearly the better choice. For the overwhelming number of people who feel like they need to have a .45 the only two real choices are the M&P45 and the HK45 and push come to shove if I’ve got to trust my life to one or the other, it would be the HK45.

 

[Nester]

I like mine, Kimber, Norinco and a Sig.


I didn't like the platform for the longest time, now I do. Fun to shoot, no concerns, they work and lots of kit out there for them. To each their own.

 

[Boomer]

A 1911 was the first pistol my 12 year old grandson had ever fired . . .


And he did pretty well I figure . . . my group is the bottom one, notice I lost one and he didn't . . .


The 1911 must be viewed for what it is which is first and foremost a fighting gun. Its not a target pistol, or a hunting handgun, although it could be a hunter's handgun. Its designed to stop fights that occurred without warning. After all, had you been forewarned you'd have been armed with a shotgun or rifle. No fighting pistol design has ever surpassed the 1911, as none of them do anything better, they just do it differently.

But lets address the most common criticisms of the gun and see it they amount to anything:

But there's no DA trigger or drop lever!
Consider this a good thing. The trigger pull has exactly the same length of travel and weight from the first shot to the last. This means that in the high stress environment of a gunfight, provided that your thumb rides above the safety, not under it, you will not have any momentary confusion about which condition your pistol is in, which could lead to unexpected consequences. Consequences like not getting that life saving shot off because you were expecting a light SA pull but got a long heavy DA pull instead, or perhaps worse, the bad guy has given up, you're holding him at gunpoint, and when you expect a heavy long DA pull but the gun fires on SA. OOPs.

Grip Safey's Suck!
I've actually come to appreciate the 1911's grip safety. The modern design has a raised section that, unlike earlier versions, will allow engagement by most adult hands regardless of shape, provided the gun is gripped properly. Again, the 1911 was designed as a fighting gun, so consider the fact that after a high stress altercation, it would be possible to holster the gun and forget about putting the safety on. On an old worn example, the safety might come off while the gun is in the holster. A few years back I had a particularly hairy go round with a polar bear in the dark. By the time the dust had settled a few shotgun rounds had been fired to drive the bear off; but I felt that I was in complete control of my facilities. When I got in the house and unslung the shotgun, I discovered the chamber had a 3" Brenneke in it and the safety was not engaged. Let me tell you, that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling in your belly. In a similar situation, where in the stress of the moment the pistol is holstered without the safety being engaged, the 1911 will not fire because the grip safety is not depressed. I like that.

1911s jam!
If your 1911 is a good example, if you haven't added a bunch of junk that detracts from the original design, if you use quality magazines that are in good condition, and if you don't limp wrist the pistol, it will not jam when loaded with appropriate full powered ammunition. The same can be said for Glocks, SIGs, S&Ws, Barrettes and H&Ks.

1911s aren't accurate!
Out of the box 1911 accuracy is generally about 10 MOA, so about an inch at 10 yards, which is certainly enough for its intended purpose, and tightening it up to 5 MOA can lead to cycling issues.

1911s have too large a grip frame
For some folks, yes they do. Some careful machining and thin grip panels might provide a partial answer, but this is a problem for many pistols that house a magazine in the butt. My Smith 469 is much worse in this regard than my 1911s.

1911s are old
Some firearm designs are timeless. Modern sporting rifles differ little from the 98 Mauser, the .30/06 is actually senior to the .45 ACP, and you still see folks want to purchase new guns from Ruger and Freedom Arms that strongly resemble SAA Colts.

1911s are Ugly
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I preferred the look of the Broomhandle Mauser to that of the Luger, and I prefer the lines of the 1911 over most other pistols, with the possible exception of the Browning Hi-Power and the CZ-75. If the 1911 doesn't float your boat there are many pistols to choose from, provided you are willing to accept their disadvantages.

 

[crackerbarrel2]

I hated the 1911 for a good 25 years. Single action, goofy backstrap safety, I mean WTF is wrong with it and how exactly do you drop the hammer after you #### it, oh yeah, two hands. Every time I looked at one I hated it! I found Glocks much simpler, HK's they are really nice and not complicated! But the Govt 45, pure hate brother for 2 and a half decades! I used to chuckle as I left the LGS wondering why anyone would drop $1500.00 for a Kimber when you can get a glock for half that, under my breath "how stupid is that"!!!

Well, take a look at my CGN Nick! When I joined CGN I found a 1911 that changed my mind, It just felt right and that was a Remington R1 Enhanced! Not only did it feel great it shot wonderfully. 45ACP is a big round and well, made me look real good at the range with tight groups! The next few months and I found myself grabbing the 1911 more than any other gun! Yes it still has the goofy backstrap safety and low capacity magazines, oh and field stripping is really time consuming compared to my Glock or HK USP.....but there is something about it that I just plain like. And that liking took some time!

If you have not had the chance to put 450-500 rounds through the 1911, then you should just for the experience sake of it, if you still have hate for it, I for one will understand as I have been there!

Since my shortsightedness cost me 1/4th of my life without the 1911, I am now making up for lost time and shooting the 1911 as much as I can Plus the 1911 is just plain, BAD A$$!

I could not agree more..I also have an R1E and it has been extremely reliable and accurate..

 

[dogzilla]

The grip safety was specified by the US government. I have a luger submitted for the 1911 trials, and it also has the grip safety. It's funny, but for as bad as everyone claims the 1911 is, that virtually every firearms manufacturer makes a 1911. I have both the hk45 and a SIG 1911 and wouldn't feel disadvantaged with either one. My SIG has a couple of thousand rounds thru it and has yet to have a malfunction of any kind. I have a Norinco 1911 and have yet to have a malfunction in it either. I would prefer my Hk 45 in SAO as I personally have no use for a Double action. If I ever was to carry, it would be cocked and locked. As for single action trigger, a tuned 1911 wins hands down

 

[plinker 777]

I've wanted a 1911 since I was a wee lad reading comic books {Sgt. Slaughter and the like}. When I grew, my want of firearms hasn't left me. The 1911 design is one of fighting gun over one hundred years old {as mentioned,JMB didn't intend for a grip safety}. Modern 1911's are as reliable as any in my humble opinion and I appreciate a 7rd magazine, it slows me down.
I have Glock's and like them, I have revolvers and like them too, but for me at the end of the day it's my 1911's that indicate when it's time to go home {after I'm out of .45}.

I would like to shoot the Browning High Power{haven't yet} because folk's say that John Browning noted that this design was an improvement over his 1911. Too bad it was never chambered in .45acp...why is that anyway?