338LM post ladder test.Group shot.BERGER BULLETIN!!

Did you have at least a bit of a breeze blowing where you were shooting, or were you and your rifle barrel in near-dead-calm conditions (like you might get on a sheltered range later in the evening when the wind dies down)?

What I am wondering is, while you were shooting your group, were you getting barrel mirage?
 
No sir, I got this mirage even before I made a shot.

Was a breeze though , nothing serious.

Got Peter Dobson sending me some Lapuas to try out also.

rnbra-shooter said:
Did you have at least a bit of a breeze blowing where you were shooting, or were you and your rifle barrel in near-dead-calm conditions (like you might get on a sheltered range later in the evening when the wind dies down)?

What I am wondering is, while you were shooting your group, were you getting barrel mirage?
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Double checked EVERYTHING when I returned from that session.All was tight.

I was making major corrections in windage to keep the shots on my 5 pieces of paper, but the elevation did seem to correspond somewhat correctly to changing loads.

Then that group I did last seemed just like it was a load issue, it wasn't atrocious , just not very tuned.I wouldn't say the scope is the issue based on that group, but that is not a way to confirm much I guess.Also did a 3 shot on a gong @ 250 after, was 1.5" approx size.

Suppose I could put the scope on my 7-08 as I know it is the best shooting rifle I have with a couple well practiced loads.

In your opinion, do you feel that some barrels need to settle in?I just have this gut feeling.



back40sniper said:
trouble keeping on a 4' x 4' sheet during my ladder test @ 250. Sounds like something is loose , did you check everything or even try another scope.
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Just curious but have you fired anything in that gun that was accurate? Not saying to spend $100 on factory ammo but I always shoot my guns with something I know works before spending lots of time and money on load development with expensive components. In my case I loaded up 15 rounds with 225 interlocks and 89gr 7828 and shot 5, 3 shot groups that where all .5-.7" so I know the gun shoots. Then off to load development we go. Maybe run something that should shoot through your gun to eliminate any actual rifle problems you might have?
 
Yeah, I could go get a box I suppose and see what takes place.

Hopefully I'll have the Lapuas here soon and load up some moderate test loads and see what takes place there too.

But you are correct, at this point I have no Idea that this rifle is a shooter, a not too bad, or a minute of barn type rifle.


kman300 said:
Just curious but have you fired anything in that gun that was accurate? Not saying to spend $100 on factory ammo but I always shoot my guns with something I know works before spending lots of time and money on load development with expensive components. In my case I loaded up 15 rounds with 225 interlocks and 89gr 7828 and shot 5, 3 shot groups that where all .5-.7" so I know the gun shoots. Then off to load development we go. Maybe run something that should shoot through your gun to eliminate any actual rifle problems you might have?
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Kelly Timoffee said:
My COAL is 3.755" in order to fit the magazine, this measures to 2.921" on my comparator. Approximately .066" off of the lands.
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"Distance to lands" is what I'm asking about. I'm new to reloading.....I have apiece of brass with the neck hacksawed so I can chamber it with a projectile multiple times, calculate the average which tells me how long my rounds can be. A buddy of mine showed me this trick. I have to go to the drawing board again to recalculate because in my last 100 rounds of handloads I have built, I have had 2 rounds that would not chamber....thus keeping 88 graind of varget in limbo at the moment.

I'm open to advice,......
 
I still wonder if something is mechanically wrong, that whole 4X4 sheet comment makes me wonder. Some barrells, and shooters! take a while to settle down. At 250 yards even a bad load in 338 should stay in 12 inches or so. That would be around 5 MOA. Following this with interest.
 
Well if we scrub the ladder test and look at my 93 grain group shot(target on 1st post) things don't look too bad.

I did buy a box of Hornady 285 gr , just for poops and giggle for next trip out for comparison.

The scope is tracking as it should, my first two shots(83,84) of my ladder test you can see in previous thread were two inches apart and looking to wander, I corrected and shots 3 and 4(85,86) were two inches apart as well.I let rifle rest a bit , then shot 5,6,7 & 8(87,88,89,90), let rifle rest.I then shot 9(91) corrected to the left again shot 10 & 11 (92,93) , then corrected to the right this time and shot 12 & 13(94,95).Here is the ladder test picture again so you don't have to go back to the other thread.If I didn't correct I would have been off the target buy shot #4.






back40sniper said:
I still wonder if something is mechanically wrong, that whole 4X4 sheet comment makes me wonder. Some barrells, and shooters! take a while to settle down. At 250 yards even a bad load in 338 should stay in 12 inches or so. That would be around 5 MOA. Following this with interest.
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very likely it is your case and not your COAL.Pull thos two bullets and bump your shoulders back a hair on the cases.

klink1983 said:
"Distance to lands" is what I'm asking about. I'm new to reloading.....I have apiece of brass with the neck hacksawed so I can chamber it with a projectile multiple times, calculate the average which tells me how long my rounds can be. A buddy of mine showed me this trick. I have to go to the drawing board again to recalculate because in my last 100 rounds of handloads I have built, I have had 2 rounds that would not chamber....thus keeping 88 graind of varget in limbo at the moment.

I'm open to advice,......
Click to expand...
 
klink1983 said:
"Distance to lands" is what I'm asking about. I'm new to reloading.....I have apiece of brass with the neck hacksawed so I can chamber it with a projectile multiple times, calculate the average which tells me how long my rounds can be. A buddy of mine showed me this trick. I have to go to the drawing board again to recalculate because in my last 100 rounds of handloads I have built, I have had 2 rounds that would not chamber....thus keeping 88 graind of varget in limbo at the moment.

I'm open to advice,......
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My advice is that you seriously re-consider using varget in the .338 Lapua. Where did you find data that shows varget being used? Thats a pretty quick powder to be using in a .338 Lapua, especially with heavy bullets. Velocities at acceptable pressures will be slow to say the least and if velocity is good your pressure is likely gonna be something to be very concerned about. H1000, Retumbo, RL-25, Viht N570, are some of the powders that will be better suited to the cartridge.
 
Ladder testing and critical range estimation are "NOT" needed if you place the feed piles only five feet apart during hunting season........

By laying prone and shooting armor piercing bullets you can increase your score. ;)

 
You can use a cleaning rod to check were the lands are. Put your bullet in the chamber if you put the gun upside down the bullet should just touch the lands. Put your rod in from the muzzle carefully, until you just touch the bullet, Mark the rod. Then push the bullet out. Close the bolt and push the rod till it touches the bolt face. Mark the rod, now measure the distance between the marks on your rod. This should me done at least 3 times. It is not perfect but will work in a pinch. The old seat a bullet long and continue seating the bullet till the bolt closes works too.
Another one is to take a fired brass and crimp the neck a little so the bullet fits snug. Cover the bullet with sharpie, insert bullet into brass long. Carefully put the round in the chamber and close the bolt slowly. When you open your bolt the bullet may come with the brass if so good. If not, knock it back with your cleaning rod. The bullet should have a defined line where it stopped going into the brass. Take some measurements and your off. Do this several times as well, to get a good number.
Or get a COAL guage...
 
I have only shot ladders in a couple of my rifles, but the groups seem to have more horizontal spread than I get, and the ladder is much taller. The last ladder I ran was in my 300rum with berger 230gr, from 86gr up to 93gr retumbo, at 300yards I had under 2" width and only about 4" of vertical for all 8 shots.

I run the bergers in my 338 edge AI, are you sure you don't have the gen 1 bullets? Or the new "hunting" bullet, which is the gen 1 berger? Just for kicks load three rounds at 90gr or less of H1000 and see what you get. My edge started to run into the nose slump at 93.5gr, and at 94 the groups really started to open up. If you have the first gen bullets and want to try a couple second gen I could swap you for a few.

Kelly Timoffee said:
Well if we scrub the ladder test and look at my 93 grain group shot(target on 1st post) things don't look too bad.

I did buy a box of Hornady 285 gr , just for poops and giggle for next trip out for comparison.

The scope is tracking as it should, my first two shots(83,84) of my ladder test you can see in previous thread were two inches apart and looking to wander, I corrected and shots 3 and 4(85,86) were two inches apart as well.I let rifle rest a bit , then shot 5,6,7 & 8(87,88,89,90), let rifle rest.I then shot 9(91) corrected to the left again shot 10 & 11 (92,93) , then corrected to the right this time and shot 12 & 13(94,95).Here is the ladder test picture again so you don't have to go back to the other thread.If I didn't correct I would have been off the target buy shot #4.

Click to expand...
 
I have some factory Hornady to try and some Scenars on the way, after that if I haven't solved anything i may hit ya up.

LongBomber said:
I have only shot ladders in a couple of my rifles, but the groups seem to have more horizontal spread than I get, and the ladder is much taller. The last ladder I ran was in my 300rum with berger 230gr, from 86gr up to 93gr retumbo, at 300yards I had under 2" width and only about 4" of vertical for all 8 shots.

I run the bergers in my 338 edge AI, are you sure you don't have the gen 1 bullets? Or the new "hunting" bullet, which is the gen 1 berger? Just for kicks load three rounds at 90gr or less of H1000 and see what you get. My edge started to run into the nose slump at 93.5gr, and at 94 the groups really started to open up. If you have the first gen bullets and want to try a couple second gen I could swap you for a few.
Click to expand...
 
noneck180 said:
You can use a cleaning rod to check were the lands are. Put your bullet in the chamber if you put the gun upside down the bullet should just touch the lands. Put your rod in from the muzzle carefully, until you just touch the bullet, Mark the rod. Then push the bullet out. Close the bolt and push the rod till it touches the bolt face. Mark the rod, now measure the distance between the marks on your rod. This should me done at least 3 times. It is not perfect but will work in a pinch. The old seat a bullet long and continue seating the bullet till the bolt closes works too.
Another one is to take a fired brass and crimp the neck a little so the bullet fits snug. Cover the bullet with sharpie, insert bullet into brass long. Carefully put the round in the chamber and close the bolt slowly. When you open your bolt the bullet may come with the brass if so good. If not, knock it back with your cleaning rod. The bullet should have a defined line where it stopped going into the brass. Take some measurements and your off. Do this several times as well, to get a good number.
Or get a COAL guage...
Click to expand...


Hacksaw to cuts into the next of a piece of brass, chamber it a few times with a bullet and measure. You will be able to pull the bullet out with your fingers. Keep in mind that the deeper into the neck of the casing you go the more loose the round will be and could bullocks up your measurement.
 
COAL is only a small portion of accuracy..consistent neck tension, case volume, bullet weight etc ..too many to list
 
noneck180 said:
COAL is only a small portion of accuracy..consistent neck tension, case volume, bullet weight etc ..too many to list
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Depends what you're shooting. VLDs are very sensitive. Here is the results from a test I did with 185gr Bergers in my .308, 5 rounds at each OAL, 100yds.

Charge OAL Avg Velocity ES MOA MOA w/o flyer
40 2.217 .010 jammed 2481.6 58 1.119
40 2.167 .040 jump 2481.8 62 1.556
40 2.127 .080 jump 2433.6 31 0.822 0.33
40 2.087 .120 jump 2434.8 25 0.841 0.681

I've done similar tests with non-VLDs and get similar, although less pronounced, results.
 
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