House fire gun.

Drillbit

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Have an antique SAA that was in a cabin fire and is in rough shape. Blackpowder frame.

I want to take it apart and start getting it back into shape.

It's been soaking in acetone and atf (50/50) for over a year now.
Every few months I pull it out and heat around each screw with a small butane torch until the entire gun is fairly warm (hoping to get some movement in the threads).

The hammer will move a bit and the cylinder turns a bit, but other wise it's stuck together. The fire was hot enough to melt the grips off it and even melt the solder on the front sight and it's gone.

I'm worried about twisting all the heads off the screws trying to get it apart, is there anything else I can do to get this apart with minimal damage?

Any help would be great
Thanks!
 
Throw it in the freezer for a couple hours before heating.
Drillbit ( assuming you are Oilpatch of course), you have to have seen Dir'l hammering in muleshoe's on the floor? In the winter they ( if they are smart anyhow ) hit the sub with steam to expand it so the muleshoe goes in easier.
In the summer a tight muleshoe / sub fit is way easier to handle if the muleshoe is thrown in the freezer for a couple hours.
Easy to try it anyhow. I always throw stubborn pressed on or seized stuff in the freezer before heating to free things up.
After seeing heated and quenched components eject themselves and almost hit the roof...totally trying it before getting Medieval with the torch.
 
Freezer is a good idea! I'll try that next time.

Yes, I want to restore it to shootable condition if possible. It doesn't look in too bad of shape. I have a new barrel and cylinder already for it, and will get all new internals after i get it apart. I'm not in a hurry and don't want to do more damage than good trying to get it apart.
 
Any gun that has been in a house fire will have any hardening removed. It is unsafe to shoot - it's a wall hanger .

I didn't think the blackpowder framed guns had any hardening, do they?

I don't trust the cylinder or barrel and have new ones, but am hoping the frame will be ok. It would be a nice wall hanger as it is, it's a factory engraved gun.
 
Frames were case hardened. If the frame was not distorted you should be able to clean it up and have it case hardened by a good gunsmith.
 
That is an old wifes tale.

Not true if the fire gets hot enough what happens is it changes the temper of the steel can make it harder or softer and because of that it can be unsafe.

Most gunsmiths wouldn't want to touch it because well... They don't want it blowing up and you sueing them.
 
Have an antique SAA that was in a cabin fire and is in rough shape. Blackpowder frame.

I want to take it apart and start getting it back into shape.

It's been soaking in acetone and atf (50/50) for over a year now.
Every few months I pull it out and heat around each screw with a small butane torch until the entire gun is fairly warm (hoping to get some movement in the threads).

The hammer will move a bit and the cylinder turns a bit, but other wise it's stuck together. The fire was hot enough to melt the grips off it and even melt the solder on the front sight and it's gone.

I'm worried about twisting all the heads off the screws trying to get it apart, is there anything else I can do to get this apart with minimal damage?

Any help would be great
Thanks!

OP; the acetone isn't helping you at all and the atf isn't either if nothing is moving after a year long soak. An old truck mechanic's trick is diesel fuel or old school fuel oil as diesel was sometimes called. If it doesn't free things up after a 1 day soak, it won't...get out the torch.
I will also agree with those that are warning about shooting a firearm that has been heated to the extent you're talking about. Never mind temper, metallurgy, ect, things twist and warp at such temperatures and that could be a problem more so than low psi BP in a gun that has lost temper.
 
Ok thanks for the info so far guys.

Next time I pull it out I'll freeze it, then heat around the screws. Then it can sit in some diesel for awhile.
 
There's a guy that does beautiful and very affordable case hardening in Newfoundland - there were some posts in the blackpowder section a while back.

Okay I'll look for it, thanks.

Anybody know about a place that would engrave my new barrel and cylinder to match the original before I do get the final finish done. If I can get it apart of course
 
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I would be very hesitant about restoring a firearm that went through a fire. The OP says "antique" Colt SAA but perhaps a serial number would date it better and thus give an idea of just what type of steel it MAY be made of.

One factor to this is that when metals are heated, they can change the molecular structure of the metal itself. Much of this change is affected by the additions to the base metal, (such as the percentage of Carbon), and the temperatures and cooling of the metal after heating. Heat treating of metals is a "controlled" process where metals are generally heated to a certain temperature, then can be quenched in a liquid such as oil, or can have a controlled cooling by lowering the temperature gradually.

Depending upon the process, a metal can be made harder, softer, more brittle, more ductile, or the shape of an object can be changed easier when it is heated. A firearm in a fire that has the grips melted off, and the soldered front sight come off, has definitely been subjected to a high temperature, and uncontrolled cooling after.

A more familiar example of this treatment to alter the molecular structure of a metal is used by Handloaders to alter brass cartridge cases. The heating of the neck area of a cartridge case, and then dumping the heated case in a bucket of water, will soften the neck area of the case, and thus allow it to be worked easier without having the case crack, split or buckle when it is sized. BUT YOU DO NOT HEAT THE WHOLE CASE AS IT WOULD SOFTEN THE CASE TO A POINT THAT IT WOULD WEAKEN IT WHEN FIRED. This is an example of controlled heating and cooling for a specific purpose, with a metal that the composition is known, and is a recognized process.

A firearm that was in a fire has NONE of these CONTROLLED factors.

Although I am not familiar with the exact composition of the metals in a Colt SAA, I do have a fairly good working knowledge of metals. I would suspect that the Barrel is a bit higher grade steel than the frame. The shape of the frame is also a factor, as the cartridge, when fired, will recoil against the frame at the rear. The top strap is a weaker portion of the revolver design, being long and relatively thin compared to the rest of the frame. This part would have heated up and cooled faster, and thus have a bit more distortion as it would have been confined by the colder ends of the frame, until the whole thing heated up. Metals expand and contract when heated, and can distort more or less depending upon it's shape.

Then we have a future scenario. You put this firearm together, and KNOWING it's limitations, you fire low powered black powder loads through it. Then, you die, either naturally or prematurely. The firearm ends up with someone who does not know the history of it, either through sale or inheritance. Your Grandson, wanting to fire Grandpop's old six-shooter, (assuming he will be allowed to own it due to future Gun Laws), buys a box of full powered loads, and goes to try it out. I think we have seen enough pictures of blown up revolvers that we can get the idea.

My own advice would be to keep it as a wall hanger. However, the OP seems to have gathered some parts and seems determined to "restore" it, so this advice will fall upon deaf ears.
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That is an old wifes tale.

No.

Heating steel in burning coals (like a house fire) it is very pprobable the metal is heated red/yellow hot.

If it cools very slowly over one or more days the steel will be very soft. OTOH if it is coolled fast by quenching (think fire hoses) it will become very hard and possibly dangerously brittle depending on the chemical composition of the steel. Neither one of those possibilities is good for a gun frame and both of them are very possible in a house fire.

I wouldn't shoot it without getting it re-heat treated. And I don't know anyone who would do the heat treat on a 120+ year old firearm frame.
 
It's a blackpowder framed SAA (screw to release the cylinder pin), serial number is in the 85 000's.

It was burned in a mining cabin and the fire was not put out so the guns metal is definitely annealed. I have heard these guns had no heat treating, only the smokeless frames (hearsay only). If it needs re heat treating or case hardening to restore it properly then that is what I'll do. I do not want to assemble something that may be dangerous.

Right now, I'm just trying to get it apart without twisting off all the screw heads....
 
No. If it cools very slowly over one or more days the steel will be very soft. OTOH if it is coolled fast by quenching (think fire hoses) it will become very hard and possibly dangerously brittle depending on the chemical composition of the steel. Neither one of those possibilities is good for a gun frame and both of them are very possible in a house fire. I wouldn't shoot it without getting it re-heat treated. And I don't know anyone who would do the heat treat on a 120+ year old firearm frame.

First of all, not all house fires are the same, so, you can't make a blanket statement that all guns in a house fire should be scrapped. As for the steel used in these old guns, in most of them , there is not enough carbon, or any other alloying elements in the steel to make it hard when exposed to a high temperature and quenched, or, soft if it is heated and left to cool slowly.
Not all guns which have been in a house fire can be restored of course, but a lot of them can be safely restored.
 
It was burned in a mining cabin and the fire was not put out so the guns metal is definitely annealed. I have heard these guns had no heat treating, If it needs re heat treating or case hardening to restore it properly then that is what I'll do. I do not want to assemble something that may be dangerous.

When a blacksmith heats and cools the low carbon steel he works with (multiple times) in his forge, does it become soft as butter, or hard as a rock?
You can't anneal steel, or harden steel that does not have the chemical properties which lends itself to be heat treated.
Case hardening has very little to do with the strength of the steel, in case hardening, the steel is heated and the top layer of the steel is exposed to carbon to give it a hard surface and make it wear resistant.
 
It all depends on how hot it got in the fire, I'd try to restore it myself as well. It has to get quite hot before any real damage is done.
 
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