.223 + Varget + CCI BR4 primers + heavier bullets~why isn't it working?

.22LRGUY

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Hey guys~I think this question could be suitable for a couple of forums on here maybe...but having just skimmed through the PR one for the last 15 minutes, I'll drop it here!

I've only be reloading for a little under a year, but I REALLY love doing it...and the results have been excellent. I reload for 2 x .223 rifles, an XCR semi with 1:9" twist, and a Savage Precision 10 Carbine that also has a 1:9". My reading suggests that a fast twist like this should favor heavier bullets, but using Varget only (so far) I've found the opposite to be true. In both rifles, I've thoroughly worked-up loads ranging from 53gr. up to 69gr. and after a couple extra range trips to confirm/refine, the Savage shoots 53gr. Hornady V-Max the best, the XCR 55gr. V-Max. Anything heavier than 55gr in either rifle (including 2 x 60gr. options) and it was impossible to keep the groups in an inch..let alone, smaller. I know semis are a different animal, so lets leave the XCR out of this for now.

@ 100 yards, the Savage shoots a 5 shot, 1 ragged hole (.375") group if I do my part, using the 53gr. V-Max. That's plenty accurate for the varmint hunting I do with it, but there are heavier bullet options I'd like to see working. Is there a chance that the powder isn't pushing the heavier stuff fast enough? I guess it's my digging into the XCR results that has me thinking. I've asked the question in a number of places re: that rifle and among the replies were people questioning how I was making the action even cycle using such a "slow powder" as Varget. That rifle cycles fine, even at it's lowest gas setting, using varget...but the action of the gun doesn't like nice, soft plastic bullet points. So, I guess, figuring-out how to make something heavier shoot well for one rifle might help me with both.

I'm prepared to try a couple other powders, just looking for some input/recommendations I guess. I've had more than one person suggest the 69gr. SMK's, but the results out of both guns is not really inspiring. I'd love to get away from the ballistic tips for the XCR, but the bullet varieties on my bench are growing...but the same 2 bullets are always the winners.

Hope this rambling post makes some sense. Look forward to any/all input.
 
"...why isn't it working..." Your rifle doesn't like the load. And it's as simple as that. Try a different powder/bullet. You don't need BR primers.
"...might help me with both..." Nope. You have to work up the load for each rifle. The chances of two rifles shooting the same ammo the same way are nil. Not even two identical, consecutively numbered rifle will do that.
"...semis are..." Yep, but for reloading it's only that you must FL resize every time for a semi. No neck sizing only. You can't use the same brass in both rifles without FL resizing either.
"...@..." That is not a word.
 
Try stuffing about 26.0 gr of varget into the case with 69 gr SMK's. Or 24.5 gr of 748 if you want something that meters better.
 
How about the 60gr vmax? My XCR loves them.

Hey JC~I have tried them, 55gr. V-Max shoots better. What powder/charge are you using for your XCR? I'd be happy to get a new powder, load them up to spec., and report back.

For your Savage:
What are you at for powder charge? (using 69s)
What scale are you using?

I have the results at home, but I'm at the office. I'll dig that up tonight when I get home. The scale is a Lyman 1500 XP

"...why isn't it working..." Your rifle doesn't like the load. And it's as simple as that. Try a different powder/bullet. You don't need BR primers.
"...might help me with both..." Nope. You have to work up the load for each rifle. The chances of two rifles shooting the same ammo the same way are nil. Not even two identical, consecutively numbered rifle will do that.
"...semis are..." Yep, but for reloading it's only that you must FL resize every time for a semi. No neck sizing only. You can't use the same brass in both rifles without FL resizing either.
"...@..." That is not a word.

Hey sunray~thanks for the reply. I do recognize that each rifle will require it's own work-up, that's why I stated that I've already done that. I was touching on the fact that it might not be a coincidence that I can't get either one shooting heavier stuff when the common denominator is the powder. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't...just thought I'd run it by the crowd here. Also, right or wrong, I FL re-size all my brass, and the accuracy is terrific with the Savage. @ least I think it is. :)
 
I'm loads where for a swissarms (1:10, 69gr) and AR15 (1:7, 69gr and 77gr). The 77gr load didn't work well in the 1:10 barrel.

I used 26gr of Varget with a drop tube for the 69gr load. I couldn't get 26gr into the casing without the drop tube.
 
If you read through this forum I think you'll find a large majority of shooters use Varget. Personally I started using this powder after reading posts Mystic Precision; the powder is temperature sensitive. I use Varget to fire 80gr VLDs and it's getting me .5-.75 MOA at any distance. I'm actually surprise that you've managed to get success with the 55 VMAX. I've tried with my XCR (not mine anymore) as well as with several other rifles but haven't gotten satisfactory accuracy. It's too bad because they are relatively cheap bullets and widely available. I would suggest better quality bullets and see what happens.

Have you tried a ladder test?
 
For your Savage:
What are you at for powder charge? (using 69s)
What scale are you using?

OK~the 3 charges I used for for the 69gr. SMKs were 24.5gr., 25gr. and 25.4gr. The last was one someone suggested, said they had good results from THEIR 1:9" using that charge and the 69s.

Scale (as mentioned)~Lyman 1500 XP
 
Try working up a stouter load... carefully of course, checking for pressure signs as always.

I've never owned a .223 - either semi (Mini-14, AR15) or bolt that didn't shoot well with 26gr Varget under a 69gr SMK (same load mentioned here by a number of others.)

If you're loading to SAAMI spec length, you'll find that to be a heavily compressed load; it's nice and crunchy when seating the bullet.
 
Have you made an effort to verify your barrel twist rate. This thread reeks of a slow twist rate.

Can you double check?
 
Have you made an effort to verify your barrel twist rate. This thread reeks of a slow twist rate.

Can you double check?

Both barrels are 1:9", pretty sure that in both cases, the model of rifle (in .223) isn't available with any other twist rate. Savage Precision 10 Carbine and Robinson Arms XCR-L
 
I ran into this problem with my CZ527 Kevlar as well. It wasn't shooting well. It also has a 1:9 twist barrel at 24". Some reading and this wasn't uncommon. Seems the barrels for that rifle preferred lighter loads. I had some 52 Berger's around and varget so loaded some up. Not spectacular but around 1 moa. Much better than what I was getting from heavier accuracy rounds. More reading and apparently 45 hornady is a tack driver in these rifles. Sometimes you just can't tell what the barrel will favour. There may also be some heavier combinations that work great. But as it's a varmint rifle I'll stick with the lighter stuff.

Read up on the specific rifles and reloading. There's usually a trend with what they favour. Work around that.
 
i have a marlin x7vh in .223 with a 1:9 twist( not verified) and i run 75gr amax bullets on 24.8gr of blc-2 ( cant find varget local) at coal of 2.395.5 getting moa size groups and have shot to 600 yards with good success, my first season shooting and reloading and im also using hornady 75gr bthp with 25gr or blc2 both powder charges were the results of a ladder test. just got a neck sizing die so tmro night im going to see if that shrinks groups. best of luck
 
OK~the 3 charges I used for for the 69gr. SMKs were 24.5gr., 25gr. and 25.4gr. The last was one someone suggested, said they had good results from THEIR 1:9" using that charge and the 69s.
Scale (as mentioned)~Lyman 1500 XP
25gr is right in line with my load for the 69gr SMK. Best results were with 25.6
 
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