Starting With A Bang

T

thaeffman

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I've been meaning to acquire handguns for a long time now ( it was the main reason I decided to get my license) but so far its been a waiting game, wait till you are in your own place, wait till you join a club, wait till you take the safety course. I just couldn't take it anymore so tonight I came online and in the span of 20 minutes bought a CZ 75bd, an MP446c Viking and a Glock 17. I've been reading a lot of articles over the months about what handguns to buy and whats the best out there I figured why not try a whole bunch and sell the ones I don't use later down the road. Now I get to wait for them to get to my grubby paws :p.


UPDATE

Got the mp446c and the cz75bd in the mail yesterday !!. I was just about to head out for the day and I ran in to the postal worker writing out the delivery card by the door. A quick signature later and i was in possession of two packages one from Interammo and the other from Frontier Firearrms (both highly recommended). Anyway on to some pics, youll ahve to excuse the qualty, I have very poor lighting in my apartment and my phone isnt exactly a leica

























Overall impressions, none really I haven't shot either and for that matter I don't even have much experience shooting handguns so really all I can talk about are the cosmetic differences between the two. I know recently there's been a huge uproar about the fit of a handgun and whether or not it matters, all I can say is that both guns fit me but I'll have to become a hell of a better shooter to be able to find a clear cut winner between the two. One big thing I noticed is the finish on the guns, the CZ has a very thick and glossy black finish while the viking...well as you can see the finish is already wearing just by disassembling and reassembling the gun a few times. I'm not too concerned but its something that might bother other people. The triggers on both guns are good in SA, the viking has a surprisingly good SA trigger given the the DA pull is loooooong and heavy. I've heard some people complain about the longer DA pull on the CZ75BD but its miles better than the viking. Other than that both guns feel very solid and I would be hard pressed to pick a favourite amongst the two.

I am still waiting on the G17, but when it arrives ill be sure to put up some pics and add my thoughts on it too.
 
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"...in the span of 20 minutes bought..." You ever handle any of them? A handgun has to fit your hand or you'll never be able to shoot it well.
 
I'd have included a revolver in the mix just for some variety. But welcome to the addiction. There's lots of time for a wheelgun since this won't be your last such spree by any stretch....:evil:
 
TDC said:
Sorry but the whole "fit" issue is pure BS. Solid form and fundamentals is what makes a gun run, not "fit".

TDC
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That's my belief as well. The fit goes as much as ergonomic/comfort but solid technique/fundamentals is where it counts IMHO.
 
Put a big a## Desert Eagle in some little geek pencil pusher's hand and see if fit doesn't count. If you can't hold it, how will you ever control and shoot the da## thing?
 
metalbender said:
Put a big a## Desert Eagle in some little geek pencil pusher's hand and see if fit doesn't count. If you can't hold it, how will you ever control and shoot the da## thing?
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The DE is a giant waste of materials and effort. Its not practical, and its simply over sized and overweight for all but a few people to effectively handle. That being said, I've shot a few of them and with acceptable results. No, its not "comfortable" but its doable. Any semi auto in a common and practical calibre is more than doable for all but those with very very small hands.

TDC
 
I think a lot of people mention fit and actually mean something more along the lines of comfortable in your hand. You're not going to keep shooting something that hurts your wrist to hold, or is uncomfortable in your hand. Thus it's better to try them out a bit before you buy. Yes, you can get used to it over time. But a lot of people won't stick with it long enough to become proficient and comfortable with it. But OP, well done, that's quite the shopping spree.
 
metalbender said:
Put a big a## Desert Eagle in some little geek pencil pusher's hand and see if fit doesn't count. If you can't hold it, how will you ever control and shoot the da## thing?
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I don't think the DE really fits anyone, imho it's just a huge oversized range toy, nothing more. A fun one though :)

I agree on the question of fit; it's all about training and fundamentals. Think about all the 1911 or GLOCK issued...
 
Rivalen said:
I don't think the DE really fits anyone, imho it's just a huge oversized range toy, nothing more. A fun one though :)
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agreed, with my 500 S&W i still flinch bad when shooting full power loads, i can hit paper decently, but not near as nice as the trailboss loads. but it's a fun gun and that's about it, i always get a kick out of watching people who have never fired one or don't often.
 
TDC said:
Sorry but the whole "fit" issue is pure BS. Solid form and fundamentals is what makes a gun run, not "fit".

TDC
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I agree as well ^^^
I shoot all my HG's (semi's & revolvers) 22lr up to 460v the same.....lousy:) I just suck compared to what others here are reporting but I enjoy them.
 
celtic1123 said:
I think a lot of people mention fit and actually mean something more along the lines of comfortable in your hand. You're not going to keep shooting something that hurts your wrist to hold, or is uncomfortable in your hand. Thus it's better to try them out a bit before you buy. Yes, you can get used to it over time. But a lot of people won't stick with it long enough to become proficient and comfortable with it. But OP, well done, that's quite the shopping spree.
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Fit is BS, but I do agree with celtic. I remember my own first gun thread here and complaining that I didn't like the way a Glock felt, and while I did like the Sig, it wasn't quite up to snuff to the CZ I was shooting. 8 months, two pistols, a Steel Challenge, and thousands of rounds later, I decided to try some of the pistols I shot at the range those months ago to see if 'fit' was still an issue.

Almost all of my groups were the same.

What I've figured out is that my CZ minimized my faults. It 'fit' better initially, but my faults were still there. Because I enjoyed shooting my CZ so much, I had a much more pleasant time working on my fundamentals. Now I'm hankering to add a P226 and a Springfield XD to the collection. So different from my SP-01, but when you get to fundamentals, all the same.

That said, OP, you've got some nice diversity to your collection. It's like a multi-ethnic family :D Enjoy the new kids.
 
you are simply wrong.

Having good fundamentals is simply having good fundamentals, that will help you shoot a gun that does not fit your hand properly to shoot OK, whereas a gun that fit your very well + good fundamentals it's simply more effective and more comfortable to shoot in longer periods of time making you more deadly and more accurate.

You cannot tell if a gun does not fit you if you shoot 10 rounds, so going to the range and borrow someone's gun for 2 mags does not count as 'it fits me very well', you gotta shoot for couple hours for a few days and your body will tell you where it does not fit, if the trigger is too long for your finger what fundamentals would you use for that? NONE, because no matter how good your fundamentals are, the gun is a pain or impossible to shoot FOR YOU.

The more experienced you get doing this, the easier it is to recognize your fit. If you do not know better you simply do not know better, but when you do, you will appreciate a GOOD fit and will no longer shoot the guns that do not fit you.

Not for nothing companies have re designed designs to fit different sized hands. It is not bull####, it works and it works very very well.

Trinimon said:
That's my belief as well. The fit goes as much as ergonomic/comfort but solid technique/fundamentals is where it counts IMHO.
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Avenida said:
you are simply wrong.

Having good fundamentals is simply having good fundamentals, that will help you shoot a gun that does not fit your hand properly to shoot OK, whereas a gun that fit your very well + good fundamentals it's simply more effective and more comfortable to shoot in longer periods of time making you more deadly and more accurate.

You cannot tell if a gun does not fit you if you shoot 10 rounds, so going to the range and borrow someone's gun for 2 mags does not count as 'it fits me very well', you gotta shoot for couple hours for a few days and your body will tell you where it does not fit, if the trigger is too long for your finger what fundamentals would you use for that? NONE, because no matter how good your fundamentals are, the gun is a pain or impossible to shoot FOR YOU.

The more experienced you get doing this, the easier it is to recognize your fit. If you do not know better you simply do not know better, but when you do, you will appreciate a GOOD fit and will no longer shoot the guns that do not fit you.

Not for nothing companies have re designed designs to fit different sized hands. It is not bull####, it works and it works very very well.
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You contradict yourself in the first sentence. Fundamentals are what make hits, end of story. The gun doesn't know nor does it care how comfortable it feels in your hand. If you align your sights and depress the trigger without disturbing that sight picture, you make hits, that simple. Fit and comfort are purely for your personal ease of mind. They play zero role in accuracy. The vast majority of standard service pistols all share similar sizes, shapes, and circumferences about their grips. Aside from this fact, we have a plethora of people who say they can't hit sh*t with brand X while an equal number of people say they shoot like a laser with the same brand. With different ages/heights/genders/experience level/hand size etc etc involved, how is this possible? Clearly none of the mentioned variables have much of anything to do with performance. The one variable that does is called SKILL which is a direct result of ones ability to understand and apply the FUNDAMENTALS.

Comfort is what plinkers and enthusiasts look for in a firearm because they are concerned with feeling as comfortable as possible when they miss. Those who compete/train/or seek to improve themselves are primarily concerned with improving THEIR skills with said firearm/system. A long day of practice or training is never comfortable and it shouldn't be. If fit and comfort are key to performance then I best hear that as an excuse when you miss. "sorry guys, I blew that stage because I wasn't comfortable with my pistol." Somehow I doubt anyone would attempt that excuse on principle alone. What I hear from most is this "sorry guys, I blew that stage because my ammo/sights/recoil spring/trigger are off/wrong/not tuned." Honestly, I don't care what you believe, as both lines of thought are wrong.

I'm curious, how many on here believe "fit" and "comfort" are key to performance? And how many of these folks have received professional training(and I don't mean the military, they're 10 plus years behind the learning curve when it comes to handguns. Rifle work is improving.) I bet that most from the "fit" camp are untrained...

TDC
 
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