It was an effort to try and make this topic disappear, as Service Rifle shooting in the province of Alberta apparently has. I have witnessed a concerted effort on here by people who appear to only be involved in other disiplines (their post history tells this) to try and silence any discussion of this. That in and of itself gives a lot of credence to what Beltfed said above. Since I am not seeing any evidence of the PRA stepping up and fighting for the SR shooters who had nothing to do with whatever went on internally (which is something a PRA should be doing), I am not going to silence them. I am inclined to let this thread continue, and deal with individual posts if need be.
Service Rifle Calgary
- Thread starter robpad
- Start date
It was an effort to try and make this topic disappear, as Service Rifle shooting in the province of Alberta apparently has. I have witnessed a concerted effort on here by people who appear to only be involved in other disiplines (their post history tells this) to try and silence any discussion of this. That in and of itself gives a lot of credence to what Beltfed said above. Since I am not seeing any evidence of the PRA stepping up and fighting for the SR shooters who had nothing to do with whatever went on internally (which is something a PRA should be doing), I am not going to silence them. I am inclined to let this thread continue, and deal with individual posts if need be.
The lofting up of the BTSA might have more to do with the fractured group access to the Homestead Facility, as this it he priority group for using the pistol range, which I imagine would interest a lot of folks. Their access to the 900m range is Wednesday nights however. How many working folks in the Calgary area are actually able to make use of that time? AFRA has the range on just about every Sat/Sun of the summer season, which are days most people are able to make the trip out. AFRA members were to be given access to the BTSA pistol range during my final year with the APRA/AFRA, but it was subject to access to the registration book, which was under lock and key and in the control of the BTSA, and the AFRA was trying to work out an arrangement with the BTSA to obtain access to the book to get this to work. Appreciate the effort, but as every other range in the country (that I'm aware of) allows its members use of the entire range facility, I don't understand the need for such a complicated structure. I am sorry to see a shooting discipline completely shut-out (and thus essentially destroyed for the Calgary area) as a result of this strange organizational structure, ESPECIALLY one, as was pointed out earlier, that helped preserve the legal use of black rifles in Canada.
Thanks for letting the this CSRA tread continue. I never could understand why we couldn't speak about it on here in the past. I've received warnings and an infraction for the subject. The fact that we couldn't speak about really hurt us when we where trying to get the word out about what was happening while it was happening.
If we can keep the discussion civil, great. I find it gets personal all too quick and misinformation becomes accepted as fact, because this is a one-sided arena.
FWIW, I was one of the original founding members of the CSRA when we started it in 93/94 (1 of 3 left) and I was a CSRA member at the end. The APRA was supportive in the CSRA joining the APRA and using the 900m range, as evidenced that it did happen when voted on by the APRA membership at the AGM. CSRA over the years became more of a club than an association - the CSRA AGM was held at a pub down the hill from the APRA AGM and the financials were verbally discussed over beer. No minutes or financial statements were issued to the membership. Attendance at matches was haphazard (0-16, generally 6-8) and Precision Rifle died for lack of attendance, leaving the Service Rifle and newly started Service Pistol. A few key members kept the matches going, but the executive was not doing what needed to be done to keep the association alive.
The APRA in no way operates the CSRA or the other shooting disciplines, which is very different from how the other PRAs operate. The CSRA had to maintain its own status under the Alberta Societies Act, which had lapsed due to CSRA membership being satisfied with the status-quo.
Sorry but the origins of the CSRA were started in the 80s and you weren't there. I was there then, and I was directly involved in the "negotiations" with the APRA representatives. I had nothing to do with the executive, administration, or running of the CSRA for the past few years, I simply tried to step up at the end to assist service rifle shooters in the Calgary area.
This forum is not "one way", it allows input from any member of this site. As already mentioned there was a vast amount of dis-information provided to the APRA executive and general membership from the said APRA "representatives". And I don't hesitate to call them liars, and that includes the APRA president. I physically stood behind him telling other members of the APRA at the AGM, lies. There is no other way to describe it. I called him out and called him a liar to his face. He turned and walked away in front of many witnesses. That is one of the reasons the APRA executive would NEVER allow any member of the CSRA to speak directly to the APRA membership, or answer any questions that may have been put forth by the same membership.
HeadDamage has covered most of the other problems. There were many.
You know what? Its too bad you didnt take the time or effort to actually speak with one of the "other side", in particular myself who still has all of the documentation.
Its done and over.
Service rifle shooting got screwed.
Its done and over.
Service rifle shooting got screwed.
I spoke with the VP of the DCRA about this yesterday at NSCC. He has been in contact with the head of the APRA about this. His understanding is that all that needs to be done to get SR going with the APRA again is for someone to step up to run it, and for that person to spend some time shooting with the executives so that they can get to know each other and build some trust. The DCRA VP said that he believes that SR shooting could happen in the spring if this is done. Since I am not from Alberta, I directed several members of the PPCLI who were there to speak with him and hear what he was told. I believe they did so after the awards ceremony. Maybe some of them can chime in...
If there is a new head of the APRA that might work, the one I know will say what ever he thinks will make himself look good at that time. However, he has difficulty keeping his facts strait and if pressed he freaks/lashes out.
I don't know who anyone is on either side or what exactly went on over there, and frankly it doesn't matter. What is important is getting SR running in ALL of the provinces. This is important for all black rifle owners, not just SR shooters. So, if there is a potential solution here, and if keeping the national association in the loop will help keep things out in the open, then lets give it a chance.
Well kombayotch,
This is exactly what I offered to do last year with the APRA. I made a proposal for a 4 match schedule (so as not to "take up too much of their range time") that I would completely run myself. I am quite familiar with DCRA Service Conditions rules, having shot over the past 15 years including numerous BCRA Championships and the NSCC. I offered to do everything including stats that I would report to them.
I was one of the "innocent" parties that does not even live in Calgary. I simple paid my dues each year, happily shot and assisted with matches (I also promoted the APRA everywhere I went). I felt that I was the perfect person to take it over as I did not have any connection to the membership issues or politics.
(This situation reminds me of problems that have been experience in junior sport like" Little League Baseball; a person in-charge of memberships screws up, money is missing. The only difference is that instead of dealing with that person or person, all the players get blamed and the entire organization of junior players is suspended from playing.)
My proposal was outright rejected. I was advised that the Full Bore Club had voted to allow service rifle shooting once again and it would consist of competitors shooting their service rifles prone only, right beside full bore shooters, shooting the same targets, ranges and course of fire that they were shooting. I advised that this was not a true service rifle competition and wished to run regular DCRA matches but was told that this was how it was going to be.
I've learned the hard way that many of those in the APRA and Full Bore Club have not interest in ever having Service Rifle shooting back on the Homestead Range. As said before it "encroaches on their range time". There are many people interested in Service Rifle shooting in Alberta, including some enthusiastic good shooters in Edmonton. We are all putting our efforts elsewhere as there are some new long-range ranges that are due to open up in the Province in the next year or two. There are many members on the boards and executive of the APRA and AFRA that are less than honest and driving an agenda against Service Rifle Shooting. I now work very hard against the APRA as they have lost legitimacy within our Province.
When the APRA advised that the Service Rifle club's membership numbers were incomplete, the Service Rifle club advised that they would agree to any number of members that the APRA could come up with and pay whatever they wanted......but the APRA would never give a number....and never resolve the matter.... Example: Service Rifle thinks that they have 60 members, if the APRA disagreed and said you have 160 members, the Service Rifle club was going to accept that number and pay for that number, no questions asked.
It's exhausting and frustrating but we will have Service Rifle Shooting Again, just waiting for a range to be finished.
Rich
This is exactly what I offered to do last year with the APRA. I made a proposal for a 4 match schedule (so as not to "take up too much of their range time") that I would completely run myself. I am quite familiar with DCRA Service Conditions rules, having shot over the past 15 years including numerous BCRA Championships and the NSCC. I offered to do everything including stats that I would report to them.
I was one of the "innocent" parties that does not even live in Calgary. I simple paid my dues each year, happily shot and assisted with matches (I also promoted the APRA everywhere I went). I felt that I was the perfect person to take it over as I did not have any connection to the membership issues or politics.
(This situation reminds me of problems that have been experience in junior sport like" Little League Baseball; a person in-charge of memberships screws up, money is missing. The only difference is that instead of dealing with that person or person, all the players get blamed and the entire organization of junior players is suspended from playing.)
My proposal was outright rejected. I was advised that the Full Bore Club had voted to allow service rifle shooting once again and it would consist of competitors shooting their service rifles prone only, right beside full bore shooters, shooting the same targets, ranges and course of fire that they were shooting. I advised that this was not a true service rifle competition and wished to run regular DCRA matches but was told that this was how it was going to be.
I've learned the hard way that many of those in the APRA and Full Bore Club have not interest in ever having Service Rifle shooting back on the Homestead Range. As said before it "encroaches on their range time". There are many people interested in Service Rifle shooting in Alberta, including some enthusiastic good shooters in Edmonton. We are all putting our efforts elsewhere as there are some new long-range ranges that are due to open up in the Province in the next year or two. There are many members on the boards and executive of the APRA and AFRA that are less than honest and driving an agenda against Service Rifle Shooting. I now work very hard against the APRA as they have lost legitimacy within our Province.
When the APRA advised that the Service Rifle club's membership numbers were incomplete, the Service Rifle club advised that they would agree to any number of members that the APRA could come up with and pay whatever they wanted......but the APRA would never give a number....and never resolve the matter.... Example: Service Rifle thinks that they have 60 members, if the APRA disagreed and said you have 160 members, the Service Rifle club was going to accept that number and pay for that number, no questions asked.
It's exhausting and frustrating but we will have Service Rifle Shooting Again, just waiting for a range to be finished.
Rich
Sorry following posts on this site does not constitute "understanding". Its that simple.
Rich has outlined what happened and what has happened since.
The APRA talks the talk, but kills service rifle.
It ensures 100% use of the facility. No need to have those pesky black gun shooters take some of our weekends.
