phase inverters ? setting up my shop

VFD.

Not going to get a 3 phase motor running in a home shop for less, unless you already know enough to not need to ask.

A properly tuned and balanced rotary phase converter is the balls, if you need more than 10 or so horsepower, but you either need to build your own, or be making money enough to justify the cost.

Start by downloading a couple sets of VFD manuals and see if the wiring look beyond you or not. They can be set to provide a bunch of functions, key among them being soft starts ( the current draw is limited at start, important on home wiring) as well as variable speed at the twist of a knob.
Lots of VFD will take single phase input and give 3phase out.

Rotary converters are better if you have a shop full to run, and even then, it is dependent on the machines and the hp that they need.

Cheers
Trev
 
triplepete said:
I didnt know you could use a VFD for single to 3 phase conversion. I have installed some Baldor VFDs but they were not cheap.
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You have to derate the vfd for single phase use. Vfds are great for simple things like drill press or tablesaws because the wiring is simple. If you are thinking metal lathe with a complex control panel then forget it. If you want cheap go static phase converter no rewiring.
 
Depends how much voltage is needed. I don't think any VFD will output 600v but perhaps you could put a 3p transformer on the output side. Talk to the guys that make them. Of course if you go with a rotary converter you can run the whole shop on one,
 
trevj said:
VFD.



Start by downloading a couple sets of VFD manuals and see if the wiring look beyond you or not. They can be set to provide a bunch of functions, key among them being soft starts ( the current draw is limited at start, important on home wiring) as well as variable speed at the twist of a knob.
Lots of VFD will take single phase input and give 3phase out.
Click to expand...

The wiring is simple, the programming can be overwhelming, depending on the VFD.

Ian Robertson said:
Depends how much voltage is needed. I don't think any VFD will output 600v but perhaps you could put a 3p transformer on the output side. Talk to the guys that make them. Of course if you go with a rotary converter you can run the whole shop on one,
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I've installed quite a few VFD's. Only one was NOT 600V output.
 
and that is a good point about rotary... you can now run several motors and change over the shop to cheeper industrial motors

as far as i know, the static box only helps to start the motor and does give you the third leg ... motor won't have the grunt

i've got vfd's on my belt grinders ... they work ! but its definitely a rotary for something that starts under load



Ian Robertson said:
Depends how much voltage is needed. I don't think any VFD will output 600v but perhaps you could put a 3p transformer on the output side. Talk to the guys that make them. Of course if you go with a rotary converter you can run the whole shop on one,
Click to expand...
 
are there any canadian sources for rotary converters and VFD's ?
Everything I'm finding is in the U.S.
And I'd much rather deal with a canadian outfit, even if cost higher.

My budget for sourcing and installing whatever unit I end up with is of no concern.
I just want this machine to run like it was meant to :D
 
Hi 45

not sure bout a source for the rotary in Can... i had to go to the states

but a new surplus motor can be had ...pending where your at

umm.... well i can tell by your accent that your from out west... I've bought surplus motors out that way from a place called " wermac "

take a look at their surplus list and see if you can find a new idler motor for cheep ( by the way, you don't need a new motor... as the idler has absolutely no load on it ...just freewheels )

mabbe they even have rotaries ? worth a try


also... are we talking about 220 V ? if you have to buy a step up transformer, that can get pricey

hopefully others will chime in on where they got theirs
 
I'm no electrician hehehe
As far as I know, I'm dealing with the standard supply to a residential meter, but it's on my shop, separate from everything else.
So... I'm assuming a 220V supply to whatever unit I end up with.
It would be nice to have the ability to also run a 3 phase lathe as we are pokin around for that as well. But my concern right now is getting the mill runnin.

I am a little confused with this a all. There does seem to be two schools of thought on this regarding VFD or rotary.
I'd like to keep it simple and reliable
I'll have some specs on the mill to share shortly maybe this will help.
Appreciating the flow of knowledge/info ;)
 
If budget is of no concern and you want the best, Phase Perfect all the way! It can properly run more than 1 machine at once and its the closest thing to real 3phase. Quiet and doesn't waste a bunch of electricity like a rotary.
 
Went to the phase perfect website and couldn't find any pricing info.
Their converters start at 10hp applications and up.
I'm assuming the 10HP would be "more" than I would need?
 
Get at least a 10 horse. Typical lathe is at least 5horse and a mill is usually 2, then down the road you can always power something else, we run our 3 cnc machines 12 hrs a day 50-60 hrs a week and we burn about $400 a month in hydro using a 30 horse rotary phase converter, so they are very reasonable to run, a hobby weekend setup won't burn much
 
coyote said:
A few of my machines are three phase and I use a 3 phase motor with 220V hooked to 2 of the 3 legs then the 3 legs connected to the 3 on the machine.
Once the power is switched on I give it a quick spin with the bottom of my boot and it spins off , now the machine is ready to be powered up.

Should be easy enough to find a cheap 3 phase motor at a surplus store .
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This works OK if you only need to run a motor, the generated leg voltages vary a bunch. But what you are doing is essentially what the rotary phase converter does. The difference is that the better built units wire in balancing capacitors, so the generated legs are fairly close to the supply legs, and a start circuit to get it going without the kickstart or, in some guys cases, a rope wound about a pulley and a pullstart.

It really boils down to what you think you need.

In my case, I have a 3 Phase CNC mill that under the hood runs on single phase 220v, except the motor, which has a VFD in the control case. Mine will happily run on single phase with nothing more complicated than a jumper between 1-2, while the wall current goes on 1-3.

The VFD is rated high enough to work to rated output on single phase, as long as I have the amps available at the wall.

One other point in favor of a VFD is resale. Much easier to convince someone to buy if the mill is able to run on both single or 3 phase power, with a VFD wired in to the machine. Do a decent job of it and you can put a control panel with start, stop, reverse, and jog buttons right beside the variable speed pot.

Cheers
Trev
 
45ACPKING said:
Went to the phase perfect website and couldn't find any pricing info.
Their converters start at 10hp applications and up.
I'm assuming the 10HP would be "more" than I would need?
Click to expand...

Are you planning to set up a commercial shop, run CNC machines or that sort of thing?

Further, how much are you invested in the milling machine you have?

I see you going down the road of spending far more on the power supply than on the Mill.

Explore the options, choose wisely. What is a really good option for someone setting up a commercial shop, is not as good for a hobby shop, unless it is getting pretty advanced in the needs.

Cheers
Trev
 
45ACPKING said:
are there any canadian sources for rotary converters and VFD's ?
Everything I'm finding is in the U.S.
And I'd much rather deal with a canadian outfit, even if cost higher.

My budget for sourcing and installing whatever unit I end up with is of no concern.
I just want this machine to run like it was meant to :D
Click to expand...

Geez man, if money is no object, buy a shop space that has 3 Phase.

Runs like it's supposed to? Who's been spooning #### into your mouth? It runs or it doesn't. Runs is how it's supposed to. Easy as that.
It's an electric motor. Not magic.

Pretty sure there are Canadian sources on the Automation Direct site under their distributors list.

Cheers
Trev
 
what about buying a 3 phase genset ?

it would also be a source of back up power .

if you got one in a diesel it could be really cheap to run if you want to go through the trouble of collecting and filtering used fry oil
 
American Rotary sells the Phase Perfects, they're not cheap but to me they're worth it. Their 10hp will start and run 10hp no problem, or combination that adds up to its max amperage. I have a 10 and a newer 20hp. No idea on longevity as anything with electronics eventually has issues but got about 7yrs on the 10hp so far and runs 6-7days a week. No issue yet.
 
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