Anyone handled both a VZ58/CZ858 and a bullpup??

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superlative

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So I'm wondering what's the difference in terms of aiming steadiness between the VZ58 and a bullpup? I find that standing up and shooting a target at 50 yards, the sight is moving too much and I'm wondering if it becomes a lot better had I been shooting a bullpup with better weight distribution?

I know it is better, but is it a LOT better? There must be a reason why many forces don't just convert to bullpup if the aiming steadiness is A LOT better in the bullpup?
 
I have a cz858 and I have a tavor.
I find the cz 858 easier to shoot bench, the tavor easier to shoot standing up.

That being said, while standing up shooting on both, I find I make much better groups with my cz858 than my tavor at 100 meters.

But I don`t think its due to the rifle, it must be my comfort level with the 30 calibre instead of the 5.56 since I`ve shot about 10k rounds of 30cal and only about 300 rounds of 5.56 in my life.
 
mikethebike said:
I find the cz 858 easier to shoot bench, the tavor easier to shoot standing up.

That being said, while standing up shooting on both, I find I make much better groups with my cz858 than my tavor at 100 meters.

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Why would the Tavor be "easier" to shoot standing up? Is it because the sight wanders less and it is less tiring for the steadying arm? Is the difference significant, or only slightly better?
 
superlative said:
Why would the Tavor be "easier" to shoot standing up? Is it because the sight wanders less and it is less tiring for the steadying arm? Is the difference significant, or only slightly better?
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Yes the weight distribution makes the Tavor a whole lot easier, remarkably significant, to hold steady while standing.
 
It all depends on what you are used to and your shooting position and technique. On paper and as far as common sense would dictate, having a mass tighter to your body gives you more controll over it rather than having it out away from your body. It's easier to control recoil when it's tighter to your body, I'm sure anyone would agree. Having said that the vz is a very light gun compared to most "assault" type rifles. Personally I like the idea of having a long barrel and action back towards my shoulder and still having the benefit of a compact short gun that swings fast. Edge to the tavor
 
I must admit I am enamoured with the idea of a short gun for CQB, even though of course a situation requiring CQB isn't needed. But it's like sports cars: it's not about need, but about an appreciation for design and engineering, and the knowledge that "you could".

That and of course the weight distribution allowing you to steady it longer. But I have also read that steadiness comes through practice. I also read that working out will NOT improve steadiness, steadiness comes from shooting practice. I have a friend who is stronger than me and he can't hold a gun straight - it's all over the place.

I'm above average in strength and fitness, so it annoys me that I feel tired holding up the VZ58 and the longer I hold it up, the more unsteady the sight becomes. I can't imagine what it's like trying to shoot super heavy guns like the Swiss Arms.

Do people bring the gun up to sight quickly, acquire the target quickly, shoot and then let the gun down again? I bring it up to sight, wait several seconds to time when the sight crosses the intended POI, and then after shooting I still hold it up for the follow shot. I expect to be able to hold the gun steady on the target for at least a minute, but is that unreasonable? I don't know what's normal.
 
And of course, the real edge isn't the 1st round... it's the speed and accuracy of delivering the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc... major Tavor bonus. And if you need to keep it up and ready (like running a stage) then obviously mega win there.

But really, like i said, practice and frequency will minimize those differences significantly.
 
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superlative said:
I must admit I am enamoured with the idea of a short gun for CQB, even though of course a situation requiring CQB isn't needed. But it's like sports cars: it's not about need, but about an appreciation for design and engineering, and the knowledge that "you could".

That and of course the weight distribution allowing you to steady it longer. But I have also read that steadiness comes through practice. I also read that working out will NOT improve steadiness, steadiness comes from shooting practice. I have a friend who is stronger than me and he can't hold a gun straight - it's all over the place.

I'm above average in strength and fitness, so it annoys me that I feel tired holding up the VZ58 and the longer I hold it up, the more unsteady the sight becomes. I can't imagine what it's like trying to shoot super heavy guns like the Swiss Arms.

Do people bring the gun up to sight quickly, acquire the target quickly, shoot and then let the gun down again? I bring it up to sight, wait several seconds to time when the sight crosses the intended POI, and then after shooting I still hold it up for the follow shot. I expect to be able to hold the gun steady on the target for at least a minute, but is that unreasonable? I don't know what's normal.
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All in practice my man. I've seen skinny guys shoot standing bang on all day long, I'm average build and can shoot decent standing up. Each rifle handles different and I'm most comfortable with my cz.

Practice snap shooting enough and you'll know where your bullet went without even checking the target. Of course fatigue comes into play eventually but like I said you'll learn to compensate and know your rifle like its your own arm.

Ive had many cqb courses in the army and by no mean am I an expert. But the best thing anyone can do is buy a case of ammo, hit the sand pits and learn your rifle
 
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