Training

Tongarirohiker

Tongarirohiker

CGN Regular
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Location
Edmonton, AB
The other thread on Fit vs Fundamentals showed just how many folks have taken training. I feel woefully inadequate right now. Due to time and financial constraints (babies really screw with shooting budgets), I have yet to take a training course. I feel I have improved, and I'm constantly soaking up information, but YouTube doesn't replace time spent with a trainer. I'm better than I was, but a far cry from where I want to be.

So, how does one go about choosing a course? What do you look for? Do you guys have suggestions for trainers/courses around Alberta? What's a reasonable expectation to spend on training? My wife (God bless her) is thinking of buying me time in a training course for my birthday, and she wants to know how much to save up. I do plan on shooting IPSC sometime in my life but I have a feeling that while the BB course and league nights will get me further, there's more that I can do.

Also, how much time do you spend on the range? How many rounds will you send down range in a session? How much information do you log about your practice?
 
Tagged for later when I have more time to respond.


Alright, so here's my take on training and the selection of such. First off you need to assess what it is you're trying to improve and what it is you're wishing to achieve. Nestor posted some great points to consider(read his post). After you've answered those questions you must then decide which school/company to train with. Aside from a very few places in Canada, you're all but forced to go south to train, especially if you wish to run full capacity magazines, full auto, and/or suppressors. Training with 5 or 10 round magazines really sucks.

When looking at schools I suggest you do it with a critical and unbiased eye, flashy videos are just flash. Don't get too wrapped up in price either. More money doesn't always mean better training. Other things to look for are contradictory practices. For example, one school that offers concealed carry training(obviously for US citizens and those who have a CCW) does not allow students to carry loaded guns anywhere but on the range. That's a contradictory to what they're teaching, and in no way reflects the real world. Things like that would and should raise a red flag about their credibility. Another factor is class size. Some schools have very large classes or rather very high student to instructor ratios. The higher that ratio, the less one on one time you will get. Look at course curriculum, are the topics those you're after? Are the topics relevant and current? Does the course run rain or shine? This isn't so much a barometer of the school, its more an insurance policy for your hard earned money being invested. Instructor bios should be published, and you can make your own decisions based on that. Something else to think about is what style of teaching is being offered. Is it a skills based school, or more of a mindset based school?

After you've selected your school and attended a course or two I offer this bit of advice. Don't get the "one school" mentality. This is very common for those who've attended one course/one school only. The amount of gained knowledge is immense, and a sense of "this school knows all, I must stick with this school only" is created. I will tell you from the schools and courses I've been to as well as the reviews and videos of other schools I've seen. I do not believe or buy into all that is offered from any one school. Some course content may be geared towards the novice more than the advanced shooter. Some content may be geared more for the LE/MIL students than the civilian or competitor. Pay attention, learn it all, discard what doesn't apply or what you can reasonably dismiss with a little logic as not applicable. Definitely do take training from different schools. The variations in teaching style from instructor to instructor is immense, the same is true between schools. Last but not least, don't stop training and learning. You'd be surprised what you learn from the same course a second or third time..

As for cost. If you're going south and looking at accommodations, rental car, ammo, maybe gun rental as well. For a 2 or 3 day pistol course. Budget $3000-$5000, more if its for rifle. Its not cheap, but neither are vacations, a years worth of alcohol, or any other activity.

TDC
 
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I completely understand the tight budget; my wife just finished going to school. Pheniox range is a good place to take your BB course, I think it runs around 500.00 (someone correct me if I am wrong) it has been a few years since I took mine. For the course you will also need around 500 rounds of ammo along with your own equipment; pistol, 5 mags, belt, holster etc. If you are a range member I think league nights are between 5 and 10 dollars, and depending on how many people show up expect to shoot roughly 100 rounds of ammo. I used to bring 200 rounds just to be on the safe side (didn't want to run out). Reloading is almost mandatory as your go through a lot of ammo.

I sold my pistol last year and am trying to decide what I want then plan on taking in the league nights again. Not sure if I have to take the BB course again or if I can just do a refresher. I will be looking into this further in the next month or two hopefully.

Like I said haven't done ipsc in a few years but it is a blast and a great way to improve your pistol shooting skills. Looking forward to getting back into it.
 
So far I was lucky enough to be trained for free. About 15 days all together.
I feel like I learned a lot, as my instructors were not only great and experienced shooters, but also good people to be around with.
If You feel about improving your skills, good lesson can change a lot. It's especially important at the start of your journey as it may prevent You from learning some bad habits.
Budget is tight and this is the great issue as with many other families these days.
If I'll be looking for opportunity to take on new training I need to make a honest assessment:
- what am I lacking?
- what can be improved?
- how much am I ready to pay?
Sometimes a dry fire session is all You need.
Sometimes dynamic environment or competition may push You forward to the next level.
If money is not an object, than we have some great schools South of the border...
 
TDC said:
Aside from a very few places in Canada, you're all but forced to go south to train, especially if you wish to run full capacity magazines, full auto, and/or suppressors. Training with 5 or 10 round magazines really sucks...

...For example, one school that offers concealed carry training(obviously for US citizens and those who have a CCW) does not allow students to carry loaded guns anywhere but on the range. That's a contradictory to what they're teaching, and in no way reflects the real world. Things like that would and should raise a red flag about their credibility....
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I haven't seen any bad advice anywhere in this thread yet, but I do want to add to what TDC says here:

There's a case to be made for taking courses domestically, just in the sense that there is much value in supporting the industry in Canada. Think of it as making an investment in the Canadian firearms industry: You're helping to grow the market. Just don't support the "wrong" players, or crappy trainers. Whoever you decide they are.

Training with artificially limited magazines is artificial, yes, but it will get you more mag change practice!

Schools may have legal limitations on concealed carry on their range but off the line. These might have nothing to do with that school's philosophy, and everything to do with their state or local legal restrictions.
 
KevinB said:
What do you want out of the training?

Answer that - and then the who/where is much much easier.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know...

And you wind up on CGN looking for some kind of useful input. :)

But thiker, it sounds like you can probably be at least a little more specific about what you're looking for.
 
Calgary Shooting Centre offers pistol, carbine, and shotgun courses on a regular basis. Shadowforce is also doing courses at the Red Deer Shooting Centre.
 
alpining said:
Sometimes you don't know what you don't know...

And you wind up on CGN looking for some kind of useful input. :)

But thiker, it sounds like you can probably be at least a little more specific about what you're looking for.
Click to expand...

Agreed.. It's like men travelling in a car and not wanting to ask for directions lol
 
Nestor said:
If I'll be looking for opportunity to take on new training I need to make a honest assessment:
- what am I lacking?
Click to expand...
Basically, I don't know what I don't know, and so I don't know what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a 'beginners' course. I want to shoot IPSC so I know that means BB. However, I'm trying to plan for beyond that, and as I said, my wife's thinking of paying for the course after BB. I'm assuming that BB and league nights will only get me so far. If I'm going to shoot IPSC or any other action sport, I'm looking to enjoy myself, and for me that equals performance.

Nestor said:
- what can be improved?
Click to expand...
Everything. I've found a way to make things work being self taught, but I realize if I go too much longer, my habits will likely become too ingrained, and I haven't had a third party evaluation yet. If I had to identify the areas I have the most difficulty with, that would be DA trigger pull, sight picture, and tightening up groups on shots beyond 7m. To me, that sounds like basic skills.

Nestor said:
- how much am I ready to pay?
Click to expand...
I had a figure of $500 in mind. However, I had no idea if this was realistic or not. I'm certain money will always be an object, so I'll likely have to stay north of the border until the kids are grown up.

I'll look into the offerings of CSC and ShadowForce. Does my $500 budget fit the first level courses + ammunition, or will that cover course fees only? At this, I am only looking at pistol courses, but if anybody wants to chime in on the quality of rifle and shotgun courses, I'll happily file that away for future reference.
 
TDC said:
When looking at schools I suggest you do it with a critical and unbiased eye, flashy videos are just flash. Don't get too wrapped up in price either. More money doesn't always mean better training. Other things to look for are contradictory practices. For example, one school that offers concealed carry training(obviously for US citizens and those who have a CCW) does not allow students to carry loaded guns anywhere but on the range. That's a contradictory to what they're teaching, and in no way reflects the real world. Things like that would and should raise a red flag about their credibility. Another factor is class size. Some schools have very large classes or rather very high student to instructor ratios. The higher that ratio, the less one on one time you will get. Look at course curriculum, are the topics those you're after? Are the topics relevant and current? Does the course run rain or shine? This isn't so much a barometer of the school, its more an insurance policy for your hard earned money being invested. Instructor bios should be published, and you can make your own decisions based on that. Something else to think about is what style of teaching is being offered. Is it a skills based school, or more of a mindset based school?
Click to expand...

This is valuable information. If I do a search, there's a few options available in Canada and even more down south. It's hard to evaluate when you have no experience to base a decision on. Thus far, I have yet to see anybody say to not go with a certain training provider so that's reassuring.
 
silverfoxdj said:
Agreed.. It's like men travelling in a car and not wanting to ask for directions lol
Click to expand...

Hah, I think they proved on Mythbusters that men are actually better than women for asking for directions :D

But, point taken. I'm looking for basic skills, and I'm assuming that basic skills will remain the same regardless of whether you're MIL/LE or doing action shooting. Am I wrong in assuming that?
 
Tongarirohiker said:
This is valuable information. If I do a search, there's a few options available in Canada and even more down south. It's hard to evaluate when you have no experience to base a decision on. Thus far, I have yet to see anybody say to not go with a certain training provider so that's reassuring.
Click to expand...

There are certain schools that I personally would never train with, but the reasons for omitting them are usually personal. I'm firm believer of practice what you preach. A school that teaches CCW then doesn't permit such is a no go for me. Some schools preach or push aftermarket crap, or specific brands only. That to me reeks of nothing more than marketing and has little to do with passing along solid information. You really need to shop around and do a lot of research on a school before you decide. In the end its your needs/wants that will determine if a school is giving you a good or bad vibe. Aside from your own research, there's still a certain amount of "cr@p shoot" risk you have to take. One last thing, make sure the school you choose(south of the border) is willing to accept foreigners, some schools don't.

TDC
 
TDC said:
There are certain schools that I personally would never train with, but the reasons for omitting them are usually personal. I'm firm believer of practice what you preach. A school that teaches CCW then doesn't permit such is a no go for me. Some schools preach or push aftermarket crap, or specific brands only. That to me reeks of nothing more than marketing and has little to do with passing along solid information. You really need to shop around and do a lot of research on a school before you decide. In the end its your needs/wants that will determine if a school is giving you a good or bad vibe. Aside from your own research, there's still a certain amount of "cr@p shoot" risk you have to take. One last thing, make sure the school you choose(south of the border) is willing to accept foreigners, some schools don't.

TDC
Click to expand...

Many schools in the US don't accept Canadians. It sucks, but not all Americans think we're worthy... Fortunately though, there are some.

I agree with the 'practice what you preach'. If an instructor told me to unload and show clear before holstering, I'd be pissed out of principle. I don't think that rule should apply here as it is. If I'm going to a private range in the USofA, where most civilians would be training for ccw, I expect to have a loaded gun on my hip for longer than a few moments.
 
metcalfe said:
Many schools in the US don't accept Canadians. It sucks, but not all Americans think we're worthy... Fortunately though, there are some.

I agree with the 'practice what you preach'. If an instructor told me to unload and show clear before holstering, I'd be pissed out of principle. I don't think that rule should apply here as it is. If I'm going to a private range in the USofA, where most civilians would be training for ccw, I expect to have a loaded gun on my hip for longer than a few moments.
Click to expand...


bang on sir....

TDC
 
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