Black rifle prices

Guys
I don't think we should argue with this 180 guy
It's free market. So the Irunguns open the door
Lets see how the market react to it

If peolpe rather to pay 30-50% more for same thing.
go for it. But they can't stop peolpe to pay less

ps I highly debate the 180 is a dealer or work close to dealer too

My 0.02
 
ez8 said:
i have no idea what it costs in the states for a Norc, but i was fairly sure that all Norc wasnt permitted in the states. also, why would the want a Norc there if they could get the real thing there for a grand.
lets compare... Norc ar15 in canada.. $700... remington r15 in the states.. $700.... hmm which would you rather buy? (im just picking the rem to symbolize a name brand.) so really, there is no market for Norc there.

as for irunguns "small" distribution center here.. ya it probably is small (you could google maps their address , and their shop location looks to be bigger than another "local" shops tho posted in here...so im inclined to believe their rent is higher), but they probably also have to now rent an apartment here, if they are flying in, staying overnight then flying back hotel costs at 2x a week would be $300 min..cheaper to have a apartment here with internet and computers so they could get some work don while enjoying a cold canadian beer..add in their plane tickets...all are business expenses, as well as a canadian phone line somewhere, and cell phone roaming charges. it adds up. if anything, i think their total operating cost combining their USA locations and Canadian locations probably greatly exceeds those costs of the canadian shops.
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For starters, based on Remingtons recent legacy of quality, I'd prefer the Norinco.

That aside, you did completely miss what I was pointing out. A Norinco M14 imported from China is about $500. An American made M14 imported from the States is over $1500. Why the different price? They are made in different countries. Different labour costs, different overall production costs, etc.

Additionally, I have no idea how Irunguns operates here, but I do know that it would seem silly to constantly fly up here to operate things on the Canadian side of the border when you can just hire one or two people to work up here.

Beyond that, me trying to explain the different business models and what allows Irunguns to bring these things in for the prices they do seems to have fallen on deaf ears. So I'll try and explain it as simply as possible. What Irunguns is doing is like a distributor here in Canada selling directly to the public. They're cutting one, maybe two levels off the distribution network. As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with this, and it may cause Canadian distributors/retailers to drop their prices in order to compete, but you have to understand that retailers and Irunguns aren't playing on a level playing field. Expecting an imported good to be the same price as it is in America is not realistic. If it can be done, fantastic, if not, that's the price of living in Canada.

actually, i have demonstrated that if one company can bring in guns (legally) and sell them to us at similar prices to USA retail then the canadian shops should be able to as well, and if they cant then maybe they should consult, or buy from that shop who has managed to find some magical way of getting guns into canada, selling at usa prices and still turning a profit making the work worthwhile.
warranties are through the mfrg, stores are suppose to help assist all warranties for those mfrgs but usually you get directed to the warranty card that came with whatever you bought and get a sorry i cant help you...somehow stores think this is acceptable.
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You have demonstrated that you have not actually read what I have previously posted. You have consistently ignored any argument I made that you didn't like. I explained why it isn't practical for most retailers to import the items themselves, and it's silly to think that a retailer could buy the items from Irunguns and re-sell them for what Irunguns is selling them for. In order to do that, Irunguns would have to raise their retail prices in order to be able to give a dealer discount that would encourage dealers to buy from them, and be able to sell the item for a profit. In fact, if it were practical and more profitable for dealers to do what you suggest, we would have seen many dealers on the Canadian side start doing this many years ago.

A note on warranties: I have always seen small shops help customers out with warranty issues. I haven't seen big box stores (who usually have lower prices than the small shops) do this. Warranty in Canada is still a manufacturers warranty, but they are fulfilled by parties contracted by the manufacturer to do the work in Canada. This is done because you cannot simply ship the item back to the manufacturer. This also costs money. In some cases, the importer also warranties the products they import. In cases where an exclusivity agreement exists, an item that is not imported through the established channels will not be able to be warrantied. On a forum where so many people place a high importance on the warranty of a product, I'm surprised that this factor hasn't received more attention.
 
rivetc78 said:
So it's o.k to charge more becuase it's NR?

That is why they do. People think it has more value.
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You can't even get an Israeli made Tavor in the States. Do you really think they charge more just because it's non-restricted? Do you really think that a Restricted Tavor from Israel would cost much less than a Non-restricted Tavor from Israel?

As I pointed out earlier, THE GUNS ARE MADE ON DIFFERRENT SIDES OF THE WORLD!!!

What about this is so hard to understand?

Anyone?

Beuller?
 
Sorry dude. I think you are wrong on this one

Israel tavor may cost even less to make than US
Because it use the existing production line from IWI.

The US tavor will cost them more because they have to setup the new production and look some out source OEM

The reason why they selling less because they can't

In US market they can't charge more because the more competition

It's basic Economic 101


They cant sell the Israel made tavor in US because the import law.
not because it cost less to make in US




Ar180shooter said:
You can't even get an Israeli made Tavor in the States. Do you really think they charge more just because it's non-restricted? Do you really think that a Restricted Tavor from Israel would cost much less than a Non-restricted Tavor from Israel?

As I pointed out earlier, THE GUNS ARE MADE ON DIFFERRENT SIDES OF THE WORLD!!!

What about this is so hard to understand?

Anyone?

Beuller?
Click to expand...
 
Ar180shooter said:
For starters, based on Remingtons recent legacy of quality, I'd prefer the Norinco.

That aside, you did completely miss what I was pointing out. A Norinco M14 imported from China is about $500. An American made M14 imported from the States is over $1500. Why the different price? They are made in different countries. Different labour costs, different overall production costs, etc.

Additionally, I have no idea how Irunguns operates here, but I do know that it would seem silly to constantly fly up here to operate things on the Canadian side of the border when you can just hire one or two people to work up here.

Beyond that, me trying to explain the different business models and what allows Irunguns to bring these things in for the prices they do seems to have fallen on deaf ears. So I'll try and explain it as simply as possible. What Irunguns is doing is like a distributor here in Canada selling directly to the public. They're cutting one, maybe two levels off the distribution network. As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with this, and it may cause Canadian distributors/retailers to drop their prices in order to compete, but you have to understand that retailers and Irunguns aren't playing on a level playing field. Expecting an imported good to be the same price as it is in America is not realistic. If it can be done, fantastic, if not, that's the price of living in Canada.
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i saw a norc M14 blow up at my range, the owner had to go to the hospital, bleeding from his face, minor injuries considering....so no, i wouldnt take a norc over a Rem.
in fairness to their AR platform, ive shot a few and know some people who own them, no issues, but its not the ones that work that youve got to worry about, its well known Norc doesnt make their own guns, they hire other companies to make them so the QC varries from mfrg to mfrg and so does all the materials going into them.
but thats not really what we are here to talk about today.

Ar180shooter said:
You have demonstrated that you have not actually read what I have previously posted. You have consistently ignored any argument I made that you didn't like. I explained why it isn't practical for most retailers to import the items themselves, and it's silly to think that a retailer could buy the items from Irunguns and re-sell them for what Irunguns is selling them for. In order to do that, Irunguns would have to raise their retail prices in order to be able to give a dealer discount that would encourage dealers to buy from them, and be able to sell the item for a profit. In fact, if it were practical and more profitable for dealers to do what you suggest, we would have seen many dealers on the Canadian side start doing this many years ago.

A note on warranties: I have always seen small shops help customers out with warranty issues. I haven't seen big box stores (who usually have lower prices than the small shops) do this. Warranty in Canada is still a manufacturers warranty, but they are fulfilled by parties contracted by the manufacturer to do the work in Canada. This is done because you cannot simply ship the item back to the manufacturer. This also costs money. In some cases, the importer also warranties the products they import. In cases where an exclusivity agreement exists, an item that is not imported through the established channels will not be able to be warrantied. On a forum where so many people place a high importance on the warranty of a product, I'm surprised that this factor hasn't received more attention.
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i feel, it is practical to cut out the middleman, why pay a premium for a useless shipping and customs clearance service that apparently is charging you 30% over USA RETAIL MSRP (not USA wholesale....) on each item...doesnt that make you feel like yer being pimped out a little? every item you sell you know 30% of your profit had to go to company XYZ just because no one has ever tried to do it a different way...or maybe they did try and got pimpslapped...

when it comes to profit, it does make sense to retain your products from the cheapest, and most reliable rout possible... what SOME (im not calling out every gun shop in canada, some are great..and im not pointing at any specifically, i appreciate everything they have ALL done to the gun industry over the years) shops here have shown is the opposite of this or insane markup and still unreliable transportation routs.. i know someone who has had a TC barrel and stock on order for 2 years now, apparently it was suppose to be a 4-6 week wait and the shop wont refund his money...now thats BS.

i value a usable warranty, one that the gun as to cross border is useless to me, ide rather buy the replacement parts myself and fix it (so long as i dont need a tool i dont have...which is rare)or just have a gun that works would be ideal....
stores should also stand behind what they sell. if i went to canadian tire and bought a drill and first time i went to use it the chuck fell off i would expect a immediate instore exchange, but if i bought a new(restricted or non) gun took it to the range and discovered the front sight is bent and it wont hit the target (lets pretend for a min that we are all crack shots 100% of the time) i should also expect a immediate instore exchange, however stores wont do that, the say deal with the mfrg or call a gunsmith. great, thanks for taking my money and then leaving me SOL to deal with a mfrg out in the states(or wherever). in this case who cares if you imported it yourself or got it at a local shop, either way yer screwed... it happens all the time, ive seen it at LeBaron right before hunting season and the guy didnt have another gun or money to buy another one to use, nor should he be expected to... you sell a defective product, take it back make it right and retain a customer by making them want to come back, not by having a monopoly over the industry. (fyi , i love lebaron for what they are... but really that pissed me off when i saw that)
 
Ar180shooter said:
Enjoy your Restricted Tavor. Laugh2
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i have to say, i agree, the tavor is not a fair comparison... i would only buy a non-restricted one. no interest in one that i cant take out in the bush, but also, i wont buy a tavor till it a bigger caliber...which is going to be a while but i dont really need it anyway.

but also, remember the canadian tire Tavors were non-restricted and much cheaper than we are seeing everywhere else. they do not have buying power for firearms, i think chain-wide they had under 10 tavors..
 
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Well. Many electronic products are matching or almost matching US price

How much is the iPad price here? Play station 3 / 4 ?

Because people can buy direct from US easily

Firearms and cars have too many paper works involved
so not as easy to import like those product above

That's why the seller in Canada are talking advantage




Mukinfutch said:
Prices on almost EVERYTHING we buy up here is still based on our dollar being worth 60 cents US. Prices were never adjusted for the increase in the value of the Canadian dollar.
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ez8 said:
i have to say, i agree, the tavor is not a fair comparison... i would only buy a non-restricted one. no interest in one that i cant take out in the bush, but also, i wont buy a tavor till it a bigger caliber...which is going to be a while but i dont really need it anyway.

but also, remember the canadian tire Tavors were non-restricted and much cheaper than we are seeing everywhere else. they do not have buying power for firearms, i think chain-wide they had under 10 tavors..
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I have been to a single Cambodian tire with 6 tavors sitting on a shelf. You might want to recant your statement. Im pretty sure they got more then 10.
 
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