.257 wby mag reloads....any thoughts on this? PART 3 post 23

Bigbubba

Bigbubba

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So I loaded up some .257 wby mags and fired them off today at the range. (new Remington 700 rifle)

Conditions - perfect - virtually no wind, nice sunny day warm temps.
Used 1F brass that was full length resized in new Hornady dies.
CCI 250 primers, IMR 7828 powder. Sierra game king 100 gr bullets.
The load data at ww.hodgon.com suggests 73 grains is the max load
Each load measured exactly with a Pact dispenser.

Loaded 3 at each of these weights: 69, 69.5, 70, 70.5, 71. (planning to go to 73 if no signs of pressure, and none of these showed any signs of pressure so I think I will do some more at 71.5, 72, to see where they go)

Average velocity was 3358, 3361, 3399, 3431, 3441 going up the line, and they were all pretty close to the average as well

The accuracy was terrible. The 70.5 load was the best and it was nothing to write home about. Before I give up on this load I will try some more at 70.5 and see if they are any better, maybe some 5 shot groups.?

Question:
You think I should try a different powder or carry on with 7828 at the hotter loads.
I have some IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 and there is data on line for them
(as well I have IMR 3031 and Varget but I have no data for these 2 powders)

thanks in advance for constructive input
 
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I've had pretty decent results using the same bullets and primers with RL-25. The Alliant data calls for 73 grains, I'm just a hair under and getting MOA groups. I used it on a deer last year, only drawback is that the Gameking didn't hold together well at that velocity, more lead spray than I've ever seen and I had to cut out a fair amount of meat in the front end. I loaded some Barnes TSX's for this year but haven't got them to the range yet for a test fire. (Different load data from Barnes, but I can't recall it off the top of my head.)
 
I'd at least get up to the maximum before writing the load off,magnums like it hot. How bad is it right now? Have you tried any factory ammo?

When starting with a new rifle, perhaps with a new scope and an untried load don't be too quick to assume that the fault is automatically the load.
 
Bought a bunch of factory Wty ammo 87 gr and 100 gr spitzer, got 1.5 MOA with the 100 gr ( average for 5 groups of 5 shots)... The big surprise is with the factory 87 gr ammo got 5 groups of 5 shots the biggest was a .75, got one .5, the rest in between... Will post video and pictures this week... JP.
 
I have fired about 3 boxes of factory Wby ammo (100 gr round nose) and they did not print well.
The scope is a Leupold with Talley rings.

Here is what these ones look like......I copied them to another target to print them here.
The 71 1/2 gr is decent but I should be able to get better than that IMO

 
A load that has been good for me in several .257s is 68-69 grains of IMR 4831 and either the 100 NBT or 100 grain TSX.

When a new rifle shoots 3 inch groups I'd be looking at scope mounting, stock screws and bedding and the crown before worrying too much about loads. Were the factory loads even worse?

I've taken new rifles that shot better than that back to the dealer.

I wouldn't be in an enormous hurry to mention the handloads.
 
"...accuracy was terrible..." Your rifle just doesn't like that load. What's the rifling twist?
"...a new rifle shoots 3 inch groups..." Depending on the rifle. Hunting rifles are not made for tack driving accuracy. Three inches is, sometimes, as good as it'll get. Even a heavy barreled varmint rifle. Especially if the trigger is factory stock.
 
Well, I would love to "bring it back" but that could be an issue. I will try calling the place where I bought it (which is a very reputable sponsor on this site) but they are a long way away from where I live in Ontario. They will likely suggest I send it to the Remington warranty center. Again.

The rifle was purchased about 2 yrs ago, complete with Talley rings and Zeiss scope (switched the scope to a Leupold, put the Conquest on my 270)

The first year I had it I could not get factory loads to chamber properly so I sent it to the warranty center and they replaced a part ( I think it was the extractor). Got it back about 3 months later and tried it and it shot factory loads about the same as these. But that didn't worry me since I have seen that before and hand loads made a big difference.

Here is my post from that issue:

So I had a new Remington 700. Problem was closing the bolt on an empty chamber was difficult, closing it on a loaded round was even harder. Got it repaired. Sent it out 2 months ago just got it back today.

The work order says "Remington Gunsmith malfunction code M141"
Parts replaced:
Part 27341 EXT RIVET
Part 97322 EXT MAG RIVETED

Bolt closes now....

So anyone have any idea what they did?
DOUBLEGUN replied saying that it was the extractor.

So now I am trying hand loads but not seeing what I would expect for results. I will keep you posted.
 
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257s can be finiky, I use 110 gn Accubonds and RL25 and mine shoots sub minute all the time when I do my part. CCI 250s and W-W reformed 264WM brass. I suggest you try a little forend pressure before giving up, all my 700s but 2 shoot better with about 5-10 lbs of forend pressure on the barrel. My son has found the same thing with his. We both avoid the TSX and TTSX as copper fouling is astronomical at these velocities. My boys 257 went from 1/2" groups to 4" groups after 40 TTSX bullets down the tube. I would recommend you also give the bore a good clean and decoppering and try again, after a good session with decoppering my boys 257 is back to 1/2". He now uses 110 accubonds and the fouling problem is gone and he's getting the same groups with the new bullets so all is good.
We're both shooting 700s he's got the LSS I think it is and I bought the CDL SF, we're both using forend pressure as well.
 
Did find a target of my 257 Wty from last week, those are the 87 gr spitzer factory from Wty, got better groups at 100 yards...
In this target you can see the pattern of the barrel heating up there is some vertical stringing, i did give a 2 minutes cooldown period between each shot, the 5 first shots were sub MOA, but this rifle burn a lot of powder, i will shop and try to find some bullets around that weight like Sierra 90 gr HPBT for my rolled ones... JP.
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I use 73.0 gr H-1000 and 110 Accubonds in 2 different .257 Wby's Shoots well out of both. I haven't chronograped the load but guess it at around 3300 fps or so.
Good groups and no pressure signs
 
Hi Guys. So thanks for the advice, I will try some of those loads. I have some IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 so planning to try them first then maybe the RL

Today I went back out, fired 5 each of 4 different loads, one of them was decent (same as before) and the other decent one was the factory loads. Neither was what you would expect to get from a good hand load though.
Here they are on one target:



The other two loads were 72 & 72.5 grains of IMR 7828 (max load is 73)

I am also going to work on bullet seating, to see if that helps. Other than putting a bullet in a empty case and slowly seating it deeper until it will just chamber in the rifle, is there any other easy way to get the bullet just touching the lands?
 
Are you shooting 5 shots in a row? Looks like that is to much heat for that bbl and it starts to throw the last shot low when the bbl gets hot. I would shoot at most 3 shots in a row. Your first 3 shots are less than 2" and quite normal for a out of the box factory rifle, despite what the internet tells you.
 
You probably aren't going to be able to seat to the lands on a Weatherby cartridge because of the free-bore. If by some fluke you can, there won't be much bullet in the neck.

With any of the 'Bees either load to the COL in the manual, or seat to the cannular if there is one, or by keeping at least 1 caliber worth of bullet in the neck, or copying the factory COL if you are using the same bullet, or going with the magazine length (subject to function) or do like I do and seat 100 NBTs to 3.333" because its all 3s and looks cool like that.

Oh, and don't shoot 5 shot groups unless you want to brand cattle afterwards. If you want a larger sample than that shoot 2 groups of 3 or 3 groups of 2 at the same target.
 
THANKS Dogleg & RPA....to be clear, yes I was shooting 5 shot groups (in fact I shot 4 of them) but it took me 2 hours to shoot 20 shots.
I waited probably 3-4 min maybe longer between shots. The barrel was never "what I would call HOT". My .270 barrel has been much hotter.
I scrubbed & swabbed the barrel between 5 shot sets, so it was always clean and cool to start the next string.

I set the COAL to the book spec. I will try what you said to see how it goes. More later
 
caramel said:
Did find a target of my 257 Wty from last week, those are the 87 gr spitzer factory from Wty, got better groups at 100 yards...
In this target you can see the pattern of the barrel heating up there is some vertical stringing, i did give a 2 minutes cooldown period between each shot, the 5 first shots were sub MOA, but this rifle burn a lot of powder, i will shop and try to find some bullets around that weight like Sierra 90 gr HPBT for my rolled ones... JP.
Click to expand...

Exactly what happens with my Vanguard. First group is wonderfully tight, often bullet holes near touching at 100 yards. After that it goes up and up and up. A good long cool down is a must with this cartridge, especially with a lighter barrel.

Big Bubba, since your rifle was made by Remington does it have the long free bore like a Weatherby built gun? I tried throwing a hundred grainer down the barrel and closed the action on an empty case. There's enough free space that the bullet wouldn't even stick into the case neck. If there's a smaller amount of free bore maybe that would affect accuracy? The Weatherby's seem to like it, even though my other rifles seem to prefer the bullet seated fairly close to the start of the rifling.
 
this is turning into quite a learning experience for me...........and I thought I knew how to reload........

The book says the COL should be 3.185 so that's what I seated the SGK to (which BTW has quite a long boat tail)
I measured the factory round nose and they were 3.152 so just 0.033 shorter.
I put a SGK in a new unfired case and seated it enough that it would not fall out, put it in the chamber and closed the bolt - no resistance at all.
Case measured 3.350 and I could clearly see the rifling marks on the bullet - then it fell out of the case!! It was barely past the Boat tail into the case neck so there must be tons of free bore.
I could try some at 3.33 as you say but i'm not confident the bullet will stay in the case........lol

Maybe I should try some 117's or 120's and see if the accuracy is better with the longer bullet seated closer to the lands?
 
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