Concerned with digital weighing - or should I be?

TargetAcquired

TargetAcquired

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I have been doing all my initial powder weighing with the Lee balance scale. I also use it to check every 5th load to make sure I'm on track. It has not let me down... I think.

I was loading last night and I remembered that tucked away somewhere I had a digital jewellery scale, so I found it, and saw that it had a grain component available, so I switched to that to compare, and there is a difference. I tare the scoop, measure my load on the digital scale (I was loading exactly 8 grains in last nights project), and then put it on the Lee balance to check, and the loads were coming in heavy, every time. Not heavy enough to drop the beam, but heavy enough where I wouldn't have used it as 8 grains.

I feel like I've poisoned myself now. I would like to think that the digital scale is more accurate, but it reads different than the balance, which I have been trusting up to this point. When I put the digital scale on grams and drop a pre-2012 loonie on it, I get exactly 7, which means the scale is theoretically calibrated properly.

Should I forget it happened and just go back to the beam? Or would you think that the digital is more reliable? If the latter, then I guess technically all the load development I have been doing is garbage? Scrap the beam and rely on the digital?
 
Gravity never lies, I have not used a lee balance scale, I use a RCBS 10-10 but the theory is the same. The lee actually could be more accurate as I dont think it has a magnetic dampener in it.

You need to get a set of check weights in grains to be sure of what you are loading. Measuring a loonie to 7 grams is great except that 7 grams is not 7 grains. Once you get a check weight you will be able to compare both scales more accurately.

I used to use a high quality jewelery scale, the GEMPRO250 which is accurate to 0.01 grains, not 0.1 grains, but found that over a period of time it would drift like any other electronic scale. I did not like the idea of constantly having to tare the scale and worry if I am getting the same reading which is why I invested in an older RCBS1010 which was made by OHAUS at the time. Again, gravity doesn't lie and I find that my powder charges are nearly identical load to load.
 
Weigh that same loonie on your lee scale, it should be 108.02 grains.

I'd be more willing to bet that the lee scale is out. They need to be calibrated too. That's what the nut on the beam is for. Take a known weight, like your 108gr loonie, set the scale to 108, and move the nut one way or the other until it reads properly. Then, try it with 3 of them. You may find that due to manufacturing inconsistency, the scale is off progressively further the higher the weight gets (ask me how I know).

nevanevan said:
Again, gravity doesn't lie and I find that my powder charges are nearly identical load to load.
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So.....digital scales don't measure the force of gravity? f:P:
 
TargetAcquired said:
Should I forget it happened and just go back to the beam? Or would you think that the digital is more reliable? If the latter, then I guess technically all the load development I have been doing is garbage? Scrap the beam and rely on the digital?
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Many years ago, an up-and-coming gunwriter, who's name I can't recall, sent several other gunwriters, including Jack O'Connor, a series of checkweights, with the request that they report back their findings. Turns out that O'Connor's scale was reading 2 grs. heavy!. The loads that he reported as max. were only valid with his rifle and his scale. The point of the story is that a maximum load is a maximum load, and as long as your scale is consistant, i.e., it doesn't give different reading every time you go to use it, then your load development is still valid. Another reason why you shouldn't take someone else's data, ( or book data ) at face value.

Personally I don't trust anything that runs on batteries, and prefer an RCBS 10-10. I've also learned from bitter experience, that all fans in the room have to be turned off, especially the ceiling fans, because they will cause erroneous readings.
 
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I would leave the scale the way it is and carry on. That way your old data is till valid. Since you start low and work up, it does not matter if the scale if off a bit.

By a "bit" and am thinking less than 1 grain. If more than that, re-zero and then subtract the difference to all your old load data.
 
keep using the beam scale. i wouldn't trust cheap digitals. if you keep using the same beam scale your load development remains the same.
 
When using digital scales:

-turn it on
-go play with your dangle for 15 minutes
-come back and lightly tap the platter a couple times (after you washed your hands)
-calibrate with calibration weights
-then start weighing
-magically your 'floating zero' will probably have disappeared
 
"mwjones" before you go on shaking your head give your own a shake. I didn't say specifically that an electronic scale isn't affected by gravity I am saying that it isn't SOLELY. I'm not a total F$#ktard as you might think. The 10-10 scale isn't affected by magnetic fields, degrading batteries, flourecent lights etc in the same was as a cheap electronic scale is. And I doubt that since the OP just forgot, and had tucked away his scale that it isn't a $2000 scale that isn't affected by these common problems, so its probably something along the line of a frankford arsenal.

Back to the OP, check out the link below as this topic has been discussed before. I'm sure you will get lots of quality feedback from other users.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/953905-Most-accurate-scale-in-the-300-400-range?highlight=electronic+scale
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/932841-Digital-Scale-Issues?highlight=electronic+scale
 
Malice has it right. Except for the part where you tap the platter with your dangle, that's just wrong, even if it makes you feel good about yourself for going over the scale's max weight.

I've noticed with my RCBS Rangemaster 750 that I'll turn it on, take the pan off to keep my primers in, and I'll notice the scale drifts by anywhere from .1 to .5 grains over the next half hour. After that it seems to stabilize.

They seem to need time to get warmed up, so to speak. Especially if battery operated ones you might need to keep a close eye on the batteries. They might not have consistent output as they discharge, which might throw off their readings a little.

Calibration is important, and unfortunately it's not as easy as grabbing a bullet from the box and weighing it, because at least with the Nosler HPBT 175 grains I use I've seen a half grain variance or more between a handful of them.
 
nevanevan said:
"mwjones" before you go on shaking your head give your own a shake. I didn't say specifically that an electronic scale isn't affected by gravity I am saying that it isn't SOLELY. I'm not a total F$#ktard as you might think. The 10-10 scale isn't affected by magnetic fields, degrading batteries, flourecent lights etc in the same was as a cheap electronic scale is. And I doubt that since the OP just forgot, and had tucked away his scale that it isn't a $2000 scale that isn't affected by these common problems, so its probably something along the line of a frankford arsenal.

Back to the OP, check out the link below as this topic has been discussed before. I'm sure you will get lots of quality feedback from other users.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-the-300-400-range?highlight=electronic+scale
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...gital-Scale-Issues?highlight=electronic+scale
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Man...chill out....

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Ok, I'll start with check weights and go from there.

The Lee balance is magnetically dampened. I know it's made by *gasp* Lee, but it's a good scale with a good reputation.

They are not so far apart as to be a saftey concern (I'm not at a max load), I'm more worried about my load developments. I'd hate to find out that what I thought were perfectly developed loads were actually a little off here and there, rendering my work useless.

No need to be hostile, it's a real question, and we can figure it out while all remaining friends. Or at least friendly.
 
Without sounding like an echo or a broken record, I would also not trust the digital scale. Lee may not be the best stuff on the planet but digis lie!
I would also use a known weight and test each scale just to be sure.

I bought a RCBS digital scale to replace my Lyman 500 beam scale, I am now using the beam scale. I found that digital scales will weigh the same weight differently depending on; battery power, temperature, humidity,how you hold your teeth etc. And when they start measuring wrong you have no idea! A beam scale on the other hand will be more obvious, a grain of powder stuck in its fulcrum, a weight that has been inadvertently moved etc.
 
I weigh using two scales. I dump the powder in my RCBS 1500 and double check with my Gempro250. Cell phones computers ect in the area have to be turned off or the readings are screwed up. Even though I turn all electronic equipment off, sometimes I get inconsistent readings and have to stop reloading. I don't know why, but maybe an unknown electronic force. Maybe this happened with you
 
Malice has it right. Except for the part where you tap the platter with your dangle, that's just wrong, even if it makes you feel good about yourself for going over the scale's max weight.
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I'm not sure that's exactly what I meant...........aww who the F am I kidding, that's EXACTLY what I meant!!!! ;)


The funny thing is my RCBS digital scale didn't work with batteries from day one (RCBS didn't really seem keen on doing anything about it either, which I thought was odd because everybody always raves about their warranty).

But the funny thing is that it's just as well that it doesn't work with batteries.....because it shuts off after 15 minutes of non use when using batteries......which means you can't really let it sit there and warm up for 15 minutes! lol
 
The biggest thing with a beam scale is to push the tray down and let it swing back up and settle out, at least that's what I find with my Lyman. Using this method I can "see" 1 stick of 4350. If I can measure powder down to 1 or 2 kernels the scale is as accurate as it needs to be!!! What's next cutting sticks of powder in half LOL

To check a beam scale, weigh a charge take the pan off then put it back on several times, it should always read exactly the same. Using this method try different things, like pushing the pan down or lifting it up and letting the beam settle, you will learn if your scale is repeatable and learn how to best use it! Checking the repeatability is much more important to me than checking accuracy with weights. Some beam scales don't hinge smoothly and get hung up. If you fined your beam scale is not repeatable check the hinge point for burs or wear or anything else that may be causing problems.

I bought a digital scale and found it would drift up to 1.5grains! I took it back to the store and just keep using my good old Lyman, accurate right down to the last stick!
 
I use a Frankford Arsenal DS-750 that I got from Cabela's. I've never had a problem with it. It seems accurate and reliable for my purposes. I suppose if you need accuracy greater than .1 grain then you should use a beam.
 
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