Why do we have calibre restrictions on antique firearms?

Darkwater

Darkwater

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Without speculating, is there anyone here who knows the logic and reasoning behind the calibre exclusions in the antique firearm regs?

Its created a bizarre industry of modification to otherwise pristine antique firearms, making hybrid modern/ancient abominations. To me, it amounts to destroying the actual historic value of an antique firearm, for the sake of meeting some asinine restriction, which completely nullifies the spirit of the antique regulations. It should be pre-1897, or some other reasonable cut-off date, PERIOD.

I'm trying to fathom the thought process when our legislators crafted this section of the criminal code. Anyone have insight?

Manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than .22 Calibre Short, .22 Calibre Long or .22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges; manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .32 Smith and Wesson, .32 Smith and Wesson Long, .32‑20 Winchester, .38 Smith and Wesson; .38 Short Colt,
.38 Long Colt, .38-40 Winchester, .44‑40 Winchester, or .45 Colt cartridges.
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The logic is that the antique guns that do not require registration, can not be used as the amunition is no longer available.
If you have a 1897 remington revolver in 32rimfire the likelyhood of it being able to be used as a fire arm are negligable.
Where as a 1897 colt in 45 long colt can easilly be loaded with redialy,comercially available amunition. The likelyhood of this gun being used as an actual firearm rather than a collectable paper weight is relatively high, thus the RCMP requires that you register the colt in the example but not the remington.
You could rechamber a revolver 1897 or older for 17HMR, 17Mk2, 17WMR, 22WMR and it would still fit into the law as an antique, but would now be useable as a firearm.
 
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for the time being we should be thankful that the law makers seem to know relatively little about reloading or of cartridge conversion. What is fortunate is that the current law eliminated the term commercially available or commonly available when defining antiques

cheers mooncoon
 
My opinion is that we should try joining the rest of the world some time.

In the rest of the world, anything 100 years old is en Antique. That is the definition used by most dealers in Antiques.

That's what it should be, I think.

Hey, how much chance of a pristine 1913 Luger being used to rob a bank, anyway? Nil.

Idjits.

BTW, in CARS it's only THIRTY years and you can get an "Antique" plate.
 
Here in yUK the Home Office has published a list of obsolete calibres - a VERY long list, as you can imagine. Firearms that shoot any of these obsolete calibres are freely available to any person over the age of eighteen who is not a convicted criminal - that is to say, has served a prison term in excess of six months.

However, IF you are a member of a gun club and wish to shoot it with ammunition that you have concocted from readily-available Bertam brass and a suitable bullet mould, it must be registered on your firearms license as a full Section 1 [rifled] firearm. And of course, the only way here in yUK that you can have a firearms certificate is to be a full member of a Home Office-approved gun club. OR be licensed to shoot game. However, the PTB look very much sideways on anybody who uses an obsolete calibre, particularly one that is BP, on live game. 'Tell that to the buffalo', I remarked to one firearms investigation officer maven when he noted that 'them old guns can't really do the business on a [large] Scottish stag'.

Right.

tac
 
Well, they do now ..... as the feds monitor all gun web sites. I'm not "thankful" for ANY of our ridiculous gun laws which do nothing but irritate and frustrate lawful gun owners while doing NOTHING to reduce violent crime committed with firearms.

The RCMP can arbitrarily deem anything they want 'antique', 'restricted', 'prohibited', 'grand-fathered', scary, bad, socially unacceptable, etc., without parliamentary debate or approval. They can change their minds at any time along the way, thereby creating new 'paper criminals' with a key stroke. The ruling party can do likewise through Orders In Council. And you thought that OTHER countries were police states.

mooncoon said:
for the time being we should be thankful that the law makers seem to know relatively little about reloading or of cartridge conversion. What is fortunate is that the current law eliminated the term commercially available or commonly available when defining antiques

cheers mooncoon
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smellie said:
My opinion is that we should try joining the rest of the world some time.

In the rest of the world, anything 100 years old is en Antique. That is the definition used by most dealers in Antiques.
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It depends on which part of the rest of the world you are talking about. In France, my impression is that any gun chambered in a military caliber, no matter how obsolete, is prohibited. A Snider Enfield for example is prohibited. I recall looking (google) for something associated with the 8mm Lebel and ran across a number of rifles in France chambered for a strange modification of the cartridge in order to make the gun legal

cheers mooncoon
 
Our legislators must have been aware that brass and reloading is still available for many other antique calibers (not on the list), so they must have deemed it acceptable for the determined collector to shoot these old guns without restriction. I can process the logic for deeming common commercially available calibers as being excluded from the antique list... I just wonder when the last time a politician went to Canadian Tire and tried to buy a box if 38 Long Colt. It's as extinct as many not on the list, even more so than some.
 
mooncoon said:
It depends on which part of the rest of the world you are talking about. In France, my impression is that any gun chambered in a military caliber, no matter how obsolete, is prohibited. A Snider Enfield for example is prohibited. I recall looking (google) for something associated with the 8mm Lebel and ran across a number of rifles in France chambered for a strange modification of the cartridge in order to make the gun legal

cheers mooncoon
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Same deal in Italy.

tac
 
yes Italy...I recall reading that 2 original Sharps rifles were sent to Italy to be used as the models for repro rifles.
Because they were both chambered in 47-70, a "military cartridge", they arrived having been cut in half through the actions...

pity
 
OK - so we're saying ain't it great that our cockamamie gun laws aren't as cockamamie as those in some other cockamamie counties of the world, like Italy which changes governments more often that some people change their underwear.. Now that I understand that, I feel soooo much better .....

And Mexico, which bans "military" calibres like the .30-'06 and .45 ACP. That sure works to curb crime and make Mexican society a safe place to live.

Go back to the Ron Basford era and start counting the guns and calibres we've lost since then, the number of restrictions, bans. prohibitions, etc. Unless you got in under the line, mot will never own a 12(6) prohib, a .32. a .25 or a full auto. But - we are the "true north, strong and free ...."
 
"...the logic..." No logic involved. However, it was about the availabilty of ammo. Mind you, if a criminal points an empty antique revolver at a cop, the cop will shoot. He'll likely miss the first 12 shots but he'll shoot. Makes 'em sad to shoot a criminal.
"...the Ron Basford era..." That'd be when the really stupid crap started. Nunchuks, morning stars, blow guns and shuriken were all declared evil as of 1 Jan. 78. No explanation as to why either.
 
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