.243 vs .30-30 on deer?

[philthygeezer]

Oh, it's not hunting anymore because maybe you couldn't make good at that distance. I know for a fact I would not consider a shot at that distance regardless of calibre and not afraid to admit it. But I won't try to discredit individuals that have the gun, gear and goods to do it, or claim it's not hunting. Trying to knock down others and discredit them for their accomplishments and skills sounds like a bit of jealousy from the ones who can't IMO. Since when was hunting measured by distance?

No jealousy and no need for people to take offence. I was thinking that shooting at game more than a half kilometre away is more a measure of marksmanship than stalking ability, except in certain situations eg. Tundra. Comes down to one's definition of hunting, and I recognize that the term is flexible.

I'm not discrediting anyone. That's your perspective. Excellent marksmanship is admirable.

Do you disagree? This is pretty tangential to the OP. I'd rather dwell on that question than this one.

 

[bearkilr]

But I won't try to discredit individuals that have the gun, gear and goods to do it, or claim it's not hunting. Trying to knock down others and discredit them for their accomplishments and skills sounds like a bit of jealousy from the ones who can't IMO.

The hunter who took that shot was a novice coached by a gunmaker promoting his product. It was also the first shot she fired at a big game animal EVER. I think it was a totally inappropriate way to start off a new person hunting, but I'm not her father, so my opinion matters little. What does matter is when other novice hunters see this video and think they can duplicate it. Which caliber was used is immaterial.

But back to the 243 vs.30-30.

 

[SuperCub]

burp

 

[Boomer]

Because you and your gear are not capable of such a shot, then that's how not to hunt? It prooves on camera with the right gear and know how a 243 is a capable round. I guess target shooters hitting 1000yd targets are just stunt shots hitting with luck. Hell alot of target shooters think nothing of shooting 700yds. Just because some don't have the right gear or skill to make a long shot does not make it a stunt of unethical luck. What next if a 243 is only good for 100lbs then is my 270 twice the gun but limited to a 200lb animal or is it 4 times more potent but limited to a 400lb animal????

To the OP that questioned the use of either 243 or 30-30, I guess your out of luck because your 30-30 is limited to a 200lb animal and your 243 is nothing more than a wolf gun..................

Actually I have the gear to make that shot, and that gear does not include my .243. By the way, my long range shooting is only at inanimate targets. I have about $10K into my target rifle at the moment, and I have the time, location, and opportunity to do as much long range shooting as I like. My best group thus far is 6" at 1300 yards, but I will never test that performance on blood, which is simply a personal choice. If you want to find out what my opinion of the .270 is, you'll have to check the .270 thread. Many people who shoot big game at long range with a high velocity small bores without a second thought should probably take a second thought. It doesn't take much thought to realize that for long range work on big game a 7mm or .300 magnum or a .338 Lapua are better tools for the job.

What the video you posted shows is a fluke, plain and simple. If you were a bit older you would know that high velocity small bore performance on game is spotty, never mind when employed at long range. Ever since the days of the .22 Hi-Power, there have been those who have championed the used of high velocity small bores on big game. But more often than not, one animal might be killed as if struck by lightning, while the next barely reacts to the shot. I get that the .243 is your personal favorite, and I'm sorry your feelings are bruised. As a peace offering I will concede that if anyone ever brings out a properly constructed 125 gr big game bullet for it, the .243 might actually live up to what you think it can do.

 

[sheephunter]

As a peace offering I will concede that if anyone ever brings out a properly constructed 125 gr big game bullet for it, the .243 might actually live up to what you think it can do.

Just curious what the extra 10 grains of bullet would do to magically transform the 243 into a +200 pound killer in your opinion.

 

[Calum]

This thread needs some Heather...

[Youtube]RYZY3UyRKbQ[/youtube]

With a .243.

 

[Boomer]

Just curious what the extra 10 grains of bullet would do to magically transform the 243 into a +200 pound killer in your opinion.

If the bullet was properly constructed, it would provide a larger expanded frontal area on the one hand while at the same time producing sufficient momentum to achieve the 18"+ of penetration necessary to take it out of the wolf gun category. A longer pure lead core producing a larger frontal area has been my observation with the .270/180 gr, the .308/240gr and the .375/380 gr. Possibly a 125 gr 6mm bullet would provide similar terminal performance similar to the old 160 gr 6.5 soft point, which was used with great effect in game fields across the world in the Mannlicher. Actually Matrix makes a 6mm/120 gr which I believe is a step in the right direction, but if I understand correctly, this bullet is not constructed for use as a big game bullet. Actually, this is a concept I would like to pursue. The first hurdle is to get a barrel with a suitable twist . . . which I have on order . . . followed by a significant investment with Corbin.

 

[canadaman30]

My best group thus far is 6" at 1300 yards
What the video you posted shows is a fluke, plain and simple. I get that the .243 is your personal favorite, and I'm sorry your feelings are bruised.

The 243 is not my personnel favorite BTW, but I will stand by it that it is a capable big game cartridge in the hands of a confident hunter, yes with limitations. I also am not one to tell you your 6" group is a fluke plain and simple, instead howabout congrads as I can only imagine what a road it takes to get there.

 

[Superbrad]

The 243 is not my personnel favorite BTW, but I will stand by it that it is a capable big game cartridge in the hands of a confident hunter, yes with limitations. I also am not one to tell you your 6" group is a fluke plain and simple, instead howabout congrads as I can only imagine what a road it takes to get there.

It's been my experience over the years that "confident" hunters are the ones that leave the most wounded game in the woods as they scratch their heads womdering how their "perfect" shot didn't fill the freezer...

 

[kennymo]

As in proper bullet for intended game. In other words, don't use a .243 varmint bullet on a deer. Barnes TSX on deer, two thumbs up. 30/30 fine for deer within its range limitations.

This about says it. I'd prefer a 243 myself for the flat trajectory.

 

[canadaman30]

It's been my experience over the years that "confident" hunters are the ones that leave the most wounded game in the woods as they scratch their heads womdering how their "perfect" shot didn't fill the freezer...

It's been my experience the guys that get out and shoot their guns regularly all year are the guys I've helped bring out an animal. Maybe you need to choose your hunting partners a bit different.

 

[Superbrad]

It's been my experience the guys that get out and shoot their guns regularly all year are the guys I've helped bring out an animal. Maybe you need to choose your hunting partners a bit different.

Again... You fail to see the difference between shooting paper and shooting at live game...and you obviously fail to see what can go wrong beyond a shooters control on a 600 plus yard shot... More concerning is you fail to seem to care about the consequences on live game when they do... You can use the "lmao" emoticon all you want but at the end of the day your youth and inexperience speak more than that emoticon ever will...

 

[canadaman30]

Again... You fail to see the difference between shooting paper and shooting at live game...and you obviously fail to see what can go wrong beyond a shooters control on a 600 plus yard shot... More concerning is you fail to seem to care about the consequences on live game when they do... You can use the "lmao" emoticon all you want but at the end of the day your youth and inexperience speak more than that emoticon ever will...

youth an inexperience................

 

[Superbrad]

Ok... So maybe you are old and immature... Feel free to fill us in... By your logic, someone that pulls off an incredible shot deserves a high 5 even on live game... Regardless of the potential of it going south...

I have two kids... My oldest is a daredevil... If he runs across the street with a car coming and barely makes it across should I tell him he should never attempt that again or high five him on the other side?... You don't seem to care about the consequences of missing the shot... Only about the glory of making it..m

 

[philthygeezer]

How far can a deer move between a trigger pull and a 700 meter flight?

Two feet? Three?

 

[Superbrad]

How far can a deer move between a trigger pull and a 700 meter flight?

Two feet? Three?

Not sure... Depends on conditions and if they are "springing" or walking I guess... Add that to the wind facor and tell me a 600 yard shot on an elk is a responsible one...

 

[philthygeezer]

I'm starting to think the deer total comfort zone starts at 120 grains at 2900 fps. I like .270, .308 and .30-06 but I'm intrigued by the notion of a bolt action replacement for the .30-30 with similar capabilities and recoil. .243 may work most of the time but sounds like there are better suited cartridges out there.

Still doesn't get to the bottom of 100 grain Nosler Partition at 2900 vs 170 grain flat point at 2250 at 100 yards. How does the .243 compare in the bushes? Is the velocity too high for close range?

 

[snoopycda]

This thread needs some Heather...

[Youtube]RYZY3UyRKbQ[/youtube]

With a .243.

I love Heather, her assets arrive two minutes before she does...sometimes in a separate cab!
I especially like the video of her shooting the 9mm and a an adventurous case gets down her shirt! "I'm not spent yet! Yahooooooo!"

 

[sheephunter]

it would provide a larger expanded frontal area .

I have to admit that's a new one on me. Never knew longer bullets expanded to a bigger diameter. How much more frontal area would 10 grains give you?

 

[Boomer]

If an 85 gr TSX expands to .46 caliber, that approximates .665 square inches. Increase the weight of the bullet to 125 grs, using a solid shank, flat base, round nose style, the bullet could conceivably, depending on the density of the target and the actual impact velocity, expand to nearly .60" approximating a frontal area of 1.13 square inches, an increase in frontal area of 59%. Sorta sounds like a .270 don't it. Consider the .375/380 Rhino at 2300 fps expanded to .92" in my tests; assuming this 125 gr 6mm bullet was of similar construction, the expansion ratio should be similar as well at 2.45X.

By the way, you keep talking about a difference of 10 grs, but to my way of thinking the Berger is no game bullet despite claims to the contrary, and the other 115s I know of are all match bullets.