Damascus double barrel!!!!!!!!! Pic heavy

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yestoguns

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Here is I presume is a Damascus shotgun that has been passed down through my family. I have never shot it. The story goes someone shot modern shells out of it and it looks like the chambers have swelled but I don't know. Any info on this would be great if someone knows. Here's some pictures. Thanks
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Some damascus barrels are sketchy for sure, but not all. I have a 1901 L.C. Smith 12 gauge double damascus and shoot light loads with modern ammo. That shotgun looks really loose, these things can be repaired if you figure the gun is worth it and want to use her. A gunsmith's advice would be a good idea if you want to restore her. He will be able to tell you if she is worth it. Break her open and post some photos of the proof marks. There is much information to be had from these proof marks. I have downloaded proof mark catalogues from the net for various countries. Easy to find. Someone speculated it could be Belgian. They produced some real junk, but also some solid guns as well. If you want to make her a wall hanger, remove the firing pins and you are good to go.
 
I'm afraid in this case the gun would not be worth restoring. It costs a faaaaaair buck to have a gun restored. The outside of the barrels on this gun look pretty rough. I imagine the bores are even worse. If you don't have a set of barrels to work with then you have nothing. Ask me, I know (unfortunately).
 
Cracked frames can be repaired by a competent welder with the proper means of doing it. This gun would be at least $2500.00 to have fully and properly restored and it would not be worth that when completed if resale was a factor. The thing is, if the bores are deeply pitted it is no longer a gun that should actually be used. Or, if after pitting is removed and the outside of the barrels restruck, the barrel wall thickness is below safe limits you are in the same boat. You end up with a very expensive wall hanger. Sure you could get a set of companion tubes made but then you are really exceeding the value of the gun. In this country you would have a hard time getting $1500.00 after being restored. It was not a high end or even mid range quality gun to start with. As much as I like seeing vintage guns brought back from the brink, there is a point when one has to call it quits. Unless of course you have very deep pockets and money doesn't matter.
 
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"...presume is a Damascus..." If you can see sprials in the barrel, it's damascus.
"...Damascus steel is only strong enough for BP loads..." Damascus barrels are unsafe with any powder.
"...shoot light loads with modern ammo..." Horribly unsafe. It's not a question of if it'll blow, but when. The BP salts get into the tiny cracks and imperfections in the bore and eventually cause rusting. Damascus barrels are not safe to shoot.
 
sunray said:
"...presume is a Damascus..." If you can see sprials in the barrel, it's damascus.
"...Damascus steel is only strong enough for BP loads..." Damascus barrels are unsafe with any powder.
"...shoot light loads with modern ammo..." Horribly unsafe. It's not a question of if it'll blow, but when. The BP salts get into the tiny cracks and imperfections in the bore and eventually cause rusting. Damascus barrels are not safe to shoot.
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This is misinformation. There are hundreds of shooters using damascus shotguns. There are numerous vintage SxS events throughout the US and Europe where damascus guns are used and there has been no "blow ups" or injuries. There are also nitro proofed damascus guns. There have been studies done showing that vintage damascus barrels are safe to shoot with pressure loads they were designed for and the salts in tiny cracks has also been debunked. Of course this is providing the gun is safe to start with which could apply to any gun. And that is why they should be checked out. Certainly a gun that has been neglected and the bores pitted all to heck should not be used. This subject has been discussed many times on doublegunshop forum so if you go there you will find many threads on damascus barrels and scientific data on their use/structure, not just hearsay because someone heard they are unsafe. Just look up testing done by Sherman Bell for data.
 
This is a typical Belgian shotgun of the sort imported in large numbers in the late 1800s. Intact and functional, it might be a $250 gun.
It is not a candidate for restoration.
 
The Damascuss "Fear Mongering" I thought was a thing of the past....but I guess not.....if the Gun has sentimental value to you, then and only then would it be worth fixing....listen to Gunsaholic, he gave it to you straight.
 
Sorry for letting loose with the sarcasm in my earlier post but I get tired of mis-informed people commenting and advising others on subjects they clearly know nothing about. I keep my mouth shut about things I don't know about and respond to requests for advice when I do.

Sunray and Handofzeus have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to Damascus barrels and their relative strength when compared to fluid steel or in how they degrade (rust) over time. Gunaholic's advice is sound. This particular gun is a wall hanger. There is way too much wrong with it. Yes, it could likely be restored assuming barrels are in good or retrievable condition. The issue of whether they are fluid steel or Damascus or twist (yes, that's a different method of construction) is immaterial. What counts is current condition and original proofs.

The OP didn't ask if he should restore it, he asked if we could tell him anything about it. For that we need to see the proofs.

For those who are wondering, when Gunsaholic says cost of restoring (when done properly) can get a little high, I'll give you an example. I have a medium to higher grade Damascus barreled gun sitting in my safe. Barrels are fantastic, don't even need to be re-browned. Maybe a very light honing just because I like things perfect. It's a sidelock. Most of the screw slots have been buggered. Before I even get into re-stocking, which it badly needs, a full restoration would be around $4000. Add the wood and with a sidelock, we are now over $8000. Ooops, forgot the cost of the wood blank. When I spend 4K with the stocker, I'm not giving him a $150 walnut blank. I'm not guessing, I have the quote from one of the better gunsmiths in the country.

In my search for guns to add to my safe, in direct opposition to the bad advice given above, I would prefer a Damascus barreled gun over a fluid steel barrel gun, assuming equivalent current condition. And all my guns get shot. And I don't shoot BP in them. But I do ensure they have all been carefully checked by a competent gunsmith, used to working with old guns. I shoot cartridges of suitable lengths for the chambers and pressure levels similar to those the barrels were designed for. Like any aspect of the shooting sports, personal responsibility for using the equipment safely should be a given.

On the other hand, Damascus barreled guns are all unsafe and should never be shot. Please PM me if you have one and I will help you dispose of that accident waiting to happen.
 
burnt_servo said:
funny by looking at the pictures , the action let go , not the "Damascus " barrels .
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That's kind of typical. It's not usually the barrels. And when the barrels do go, whether fluid, twist or damascus, it's typically a blockage, an overcharged shell or previous damage making itself more readily apparent.

The idea that damascus is unsafe is most likely the result of a marketing campaign begun in the 1920's, by the shotshell and shotgun manufacturers, to encourage people to buy the new guns, not hang onto the old ones.
 
gunsaholic said:
Proof marks on the barrel flats will give more information but it is most likely a low end Belgian shotgun that is in no way fit to be near a live shell.
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......Black powder or any other kind.

Ya that action is WAY too loose and the cracks are not safe. Under the fore grip there will be additional information /proof marks. In the state it has found its self to be, it is only fit for hanging on the wall.
I have a Wm.Parkhurst with full nickel plated engraving, checkering and Belgian twist damascus barrels with a beautiful spiral rain drop like pattern. I have shot light target loads specially loaded in my mec600jr since it is only 2 1/2" chambers, mostly she hangs on the wall as a 4th generation heirloom.
 
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canvasback said:
Sorry for letting loose with the sarcasm in my earlier post but I get tired of mis-informed people commenting and advising others on subjects they clearly know nothing about. I keep my mouth shut about things I don't know about and respond to requests for advice when I do.

Sunray and Handofzeus have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to Damascus barrels and their relative strength when compared to fluid steel or in how they degrade (rust) over time. Gunaholic's advice is sound. This particular gun is a wall hanger. There is way too much wrong with it. Yes, it could likely be restored assuming barrels are in good or retrievable condition. The issue of whether they are fluid steel or Damascus or twist (yes, that's a different method of construction) is immaterial. What counts is current condition and original proofs.

The OP didn't ask if he should restore it, he asked if we could tell him anything about it. For that we need to see the proofs.

For those who are wondering, when Gunsaholic says cost of restoring (when done properly) can get a little high, I'll give you an example. I have a medium to higher grade Damascus barreled gun sitting in my safe. Barrels are fantastic, don't even need to be re-browned. Maybe a very light honing just because I like things perfect. It's a sidelock. Most of the screw slots have been buggered. Before I even get into re-stocking, which it badly needs, a full restoration would be around $4000. Add the wood and with a sidelock, we are now over $8000. Ooops, forgot the cost of the wood blank. When I spend 4K with the stocker, I'm not giving him a $150 walnut blank. I'm not guessing, I have the quote from one of the better gunsmiths in the country.

In my search for guns to add to my safe, in direct opposition to the bad advice given above, I would prefer a Damascus barreled gun over a fluid steel barrel gun, assuming equivalent current condition. And all my guns get shot. And I don't shoot BP in them. But I do ensure they have all been carefully checked by a competent gunsmith, used to working with old guns. I shoot cartridges of suitable lengths for the chambers and pressure levels similar to those the barrels were designed for. Like any aspect of the shooting sports, personal responsibility for using the equipment safely should be a given.

On the other hand, Damascus barreled guns are all unsafe and should never be shot. Please PM me if you have one and I will help you dispose of that accident waiting to happen.
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Yep, I don't know what I'm talking about because I told him not to shoot a damaged and inherently weak gun.....someone has their head stuck up their ass I'd say. Can you guess who?! BTW I have an old damascus barrelled gun and have shot it (with caution) with BP.
 
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