FR7 .308 ammo question

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Shot Gun

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Good Day All,

I just acquired a FR7 and have been reading up on it (including all the older threads here on CGN) and I am trying to get a sense of what factory loads in .308 (yes I know this is a 7.62mm Nato action) would be safe to shoot through this wee beasty. I will be using it for both target shooting and bush hunting as well as an all around truck rifle, I will track down some surplus ammo for the range but want to know what are safe hunting loads for this rifle? Deer mainly...
 
I think this rifle was intended to use the same cartridge as the CETME which did NOT use the 7.62 NATO round. It used a 7.62 x 51 case but used a 113 grain bullet at lower pressure than the 762 NATO. Also, the FR7 was built on old Mauser 93 rifles, not Mauser 98's. I would load it with 130 or 150 bullets loaded down about 150 fps to about 2700 fps for the 150.
 
Good advice; thase WERE built out of older rifles, some going 'way back.

Dropping the MV only 150 ft/sc will drop the pressure a LOT.

Modern commercial .308W ammo tends to be heavily over-loaded as compared even to original M-80 Ball ammo...... and they are loading it heavier every year, it seems.

Gotta be a pressure limit in there SOMEwhere.......

When loading for older Milsurp rifles, I find that I get excellent accuracy with most of them by going down 10% from the combat loading.

Ten percent drop in velocity equates (roughly) to 20% drop in pressure and barrel-destroying HEAT.

Better to HIT something with 2000 ft/lbs than it is to MISS it with 2400, one would think.
 
I load mine with 300 savage data. BTW, the spanish didn't seem to make very many FR7's, I saw a survey on another forum that indicates less than 4000 were made. They made many more FR8's, who knows why, but maybe the older action were marginal, or maybe some other reason.
 
MiG25 said:
I load mine with 300 savage data. BTW, the spanish didn't seem to make very many FR7's, I saw a survey on another forum that indicates less than 4000 were made. They made many more FR8's, who knows why, but maybe the older action were marginal, or maybe some other reason.
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^^^^
What he said.
I load mine the same way. I have the 200 yard aperture set for 100 yd zero.
I'm using 150 grain Remington Core-Lock bullets ( round nose for .30-30) and Win 748 powder.

I have used Norinco 7.62 x 51 ammo in mine with no problems
 
762shooter said:
I think this rifle was intended to use the same cartridge as the CETME which did NOT use the 7.62 NATO round. It used a 7.62 x 51 case but used a 113 grain bullet at lower pressure than the 762 NATO. Also, the FR7 was built on old Mauser 93 rifles, not Mauser 98's. I would load it with 130 or 150 bullets loaded down about 150 fps to about 2700 fps for the 150.
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From all the research I have done tour correct it was originally chambered for the 7.62 CETME round then rebarreled for the 7.62 NATO. All the reading I have done also indicates that the FR7 was based on the Spanish 1916 "small ring" Mauser which apparently can't handle the higher pressures of the more modern .308 loads and as I just got this wee beastie I don't want it blowing up because of operator head spacing ;-)
 
MiG25 said:
I load mine with 300 savage data. BTW, the spanish didn't seem to make very many FR7's, I saw a survey on another forum that indicates less than 4000 were made. They made many more FR8's, who knows why, but maybe the older action were marginal, or maybe some other reason.
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I believe in my travels around the web I read that the FR7 was built for mounted use (hence the curved bolt?) where the FR8 was for general issue. I intend to add a FR8 to the stable as soon as this unexpected need to move is dealt with.
 
sniper58 said:
I have used Norinco 7.62 x 51 ammo in mine with no problems
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That's good to hear as that is what I was thinking of buying for plinking. You mentioned you have your sights set to the 200 yard aperture, does yours tend to shoot low when set to the 100 yard v notch? Or does using the 200 feel more comfortable?
 
Shot Gun said:
That's good to hear as that is what I was thinking of buying for plinking. You mentioned you have your sights set to the 200 yard aperture, does yours tend to shoot low when set to the 100 yard v notch? Or does using the 200 feel more comfortable?
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I have 55-year old eyes. I have a hard time using regular open sights. Aperture sights work better for me.
I loosened off the set-screw in the front sight and adjusted it (raised it) until the rounds were zeroed at 100 m.
 
I have a few hundred CETME pulled bullets, can't remember where they came from as a friend bought thousands and I took some from him. Tried them in two different guns and IIRC the worked well in one and crap in the other. Couldn't hit paper at 100 in one as it had the wrong rate of twist.

The bullets are probably still available in Canada as I think the guy bought lots and pulled the bullets to sell them and the powder. IIRC they came from a batch that had many with faulty primers so they were sold on the surplus market.
 
The "it was designed for the cetme" round is utter bull. It was designed for the 7.62 NATO round. Do some seriously deep research and you will find articles documenting this, along with the destruction testing that showed the chamber could take several times the pressure of a 308 round before catastrophic failure.

The cetme claim is a worst case example of Internet myth becoming bogus Internet fact simply because it has been said so many times, and there are so few of the guns for anyone to really care if I is right or not.

That being said, the guns are rebuilt Santa Barbara Mausers with several years behind them. Be nice to her. I have had no issues running genuine brass7.62 NATO surplus in my FR7. I won't use 308 in it, or norinco / steel cased ammo.
 
I load my FR7 with light 308 data without any issue. It's all about the pressures, as long as you keep it low on the 308 data you are fine. Mine is a blast to shoot. Every thing I have researched claims that the FR8, being built on the larger Mauser action can and will handle the hot 308 loads but the FR7 shouldn't, so keep it on the light side.
 
"...7.62 CETME..." Pressures ran around 47-48000 psi. Any loads in that range will do nicely with a 130ish grain bullet. You won't find any surplus ammo.
 
Fenceline - there are 2 FR8's on EE - search FR8 and FR-8 in milsup, I bought my 1957 FR8 off EE about 3 months ago for an awesome deal, few dings in the stock but most came out with an iron. Matching numbers and it is a blast to shoot although I do my own reloads with IVI brass so still tuning loads until I find one that the rifle likes the best.
 
Griffin6869 said:
Fenceline - there are 2 FR8's on EE - search FR8 and FR-8 in milsup, I bought my 1957 FR8 off EE about 3 months ago for an awesome deal, few dings in the stock but most came out with an iron. Matching numbers and it is a blast to shoot although I do my own reloads with IVI brass so still tuning loads until I find one that the rifle likes the best.
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True. Not impossible to find. I just meant finding one in person.
 
I had an FR7 for a bit. I did wish I had waited and gotten a big ring FR8 though.

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=317683

Kenshi September 25, 2011 16:00

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The problem with the FR7 is that it is based on the M93 Mauser. This design (FR7/M93 Mauser) was metallurgy designed, and stressed, to handle the pressures of the 7mm Mauser cartridge. The receiver of the M93 Mauser is constructed of a material that has an elastic limit that is perfectly fine for the 7mm Mauser pressure and bolt thrust and the receiver was actually designed to be stressed and operate in the 45k psi area.

When someone states 7.62 NATO or 7.62x51mm MIL SPEC they are specifying a cartridge specification that regardless of the load does not exceed 50kpsi chamber pressure. .308 Winchester on the other hand, which a lot of people mistakenly think of as exactly the same as 7.62 NATO, is specified to have a 62kpsi max chamber pressure. Both are spec'd in PSI not one in PSI and the other in CUP.

The M98 Mauser (and FR8) was designed of material specifically stressed to handle the 57k psi pressures and bolt thrust of the 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser) cartridge.
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fenceline said:
True. Not impossible to find. I just meant finding one in person.
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Your right on finding one in person - I prefer to deal local as well - found mine 10 min from my work so I was able to take a go gauge and a no go guage for a full inspection before making an offer. After 20 min and $400 lighter in the wallet I was happy happy happy.
 
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I've had both, I prefer the FR-7. The turned down bolt, slimmer stock and action, nicer wood. And it seemed better machined and finished than the FR-8. Of course I am talking about examples of one.
 
Shot Gun said:
From all the research I have done tour correct it was originally chambered for the 7.62 CETME round then rebarreled for the 7.62 NATO. All the reading I have done also indicates that the FR7 was based on the Spanish 1916 "small ring" Mauser which apparently can't handle the higher pressures of the more modern .308 loads and as I just got this wee beastie I don't want it blowing up because of operator head spacing ;-)
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It wouldn't have had to be "rebarrelled". The 7.62 NATO and and the 7.62 CETME rounds are externally pretty much identical. The 7.62 NATO is a 7.62 x 51 case loaded to a particular NATO specification. The 7.62 CETME cartridge is the same case loaded with a lighter bullet (113 gr vs, 147 gr.) and a lower pressure but is not a NATO standard cartridge. Any CETME, FR7 or FR8 will chamber and fire a 7.62 NATO cartridge even though that is not what they were intended to shoot.
 
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