I'm new here, and trying to decide between 2 pistols. Any help?

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mildlyconcerned

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Hello.

I've been out of "guns" for nearly 20 years, back then everybody had the CZ-75 or a .45 and loved them.
Lately, i've been looking at getting back into it, and want to pick something up, reasonably cheap, and of a great quality.

With that in mind, i've settled on a couple choices. One being the Norinco NP34, and the other, i'm not even sure is legal due to barrel length. That one being...god i have no idea what the hell the name of the company is so bear with me...its a mouthful (lol!) Yavuz 16 Girsan? MC 27E.
But that weapon has a 98.5mm barrel length, which i'm reasonably sure isn't legal limit for Canada. Any thoughts on what to do? Beyond just save up the money and buy a surplus Sig 228...?

Anyhow, those are the 2 i've narrowed down to. If anyone has thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or can think of something better... do let me know. My considerations are mainly self defense/protection, plinking and farting around.
 
First off, " reasonably cheap, and of a great quality " , mega oxy moron. Not happening. If you want cheap there's lots available, if you want great quality it's gonna cost you just like in the old days.

CZ is still a quality product, so is the Tanfolio. There are a ton of new models to fit every need so it's better than ever. Same with the 1911. Smith, Ruger, Kimber, Sig, all make great units and you don't need to fart around with them half as much as you did 20 years ago.

Smith M&P 9 in the standard version or the Pro is great, so are the Glocks. 9mm is easy to source just about everywhere. Watch the Equipment Exchange, they come up often and every once in a while one is a good deal.
 
Looks like You want a steel frame pistol. While "cheap and decent quality" is much more easier to accomplish within the plastic word of guns, You still have some choices.
With all respect though, in my personal experience Norinco isn't one of them. Look for pre-owned Ruger P85 or if You are really pressed so hard - brand new TT33 (Polish).
Pre-owned CZ75/85 would be probably the best choice though.
 
Suppose i should add in some more things or considerations i was or am looking for in a pistol...
The mag release, has to be nice and easy, not a tiny thin nub like was with the glocks or the ruger p85. Nice big firm button please.
Also frame mounted safety, not slide mounted. And none of this hammer dropping safety nonsense.
Metal, i prefer over polymer...unless of course, in this "plastic world of guns" there is something out there that does give me everything i want.
 
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mildlyconcerned said:
Suppose i should add in some more things or considerations i was or am looking for in a pistol...
The mag release, has to be nice and easy, not a tiny thin nub like was with the glocks or the ruger p85. Nice big firm button please.
Also frame mounted safety, not slide mounted. And none of this hammer dropping safety nonsense.
Metal, i prefer over polymer...unless of course, in this "plastic world of guns" there is something out there that does give me everything i want.[/QUOTE]

K100Mk12001.jpg


Well, maybe...

Grand Power K100 with the big mag button sounds like it fits the bill.
Click to expand...
 
OMFG thats pretty. Now to google the beast and hopefully not be let down, but that really looks like it hits the mark with what i want.... thank you!
 
yeah unless someone has an idea for a metal gun, think the K100 is what i'll be looking into in a big way.

I think i'll also be looking into a used CZ-75 or 85, as well as any used or reconditioned sigs. Yes, i know they have hammer drop safetys...but they're damned good. :)
 
mildlyconcerned said:
OMFG thats pretty. Now to google the beast and hopefully not be let down, but that really looks like it hits the mark with what i want.... thank you!
Click to expand...

025.jpg


Well, if it helps.....

The grip frame on the K100 is just that, a grip.
Everything structural is housed in the machined steel frame insert.
The grip frame just provides the pivot point for the trigger and hold the magazine in position.
 
If I might offer a second suggestion - much in line with the K100 for your consideration:

DSCN7059.jpg


A Baikal Viking MP-446 - Now you've probably never heard of Baikal: It's the Western trading name for the folks who brought the world the Makarov (another fantastic bit of kit).

What you get for the modest sum that you'll spend on these is one of the toughest and most reliable polymer frame pistols you'll see on the market to day.

In my experience the trigger on it is great and out of the thousand odd rounds I've put through of varying and dubious quality it has not failed to feed/fire/eject once.

At all.

Ever.

And pretty much every review you'll find on the 'net backs this up.

It's aesthetics is hit and miss with people - to me it's got the rugged russian 'is built like tractor' feel to it. One of those guns that's so ugly it's pretty.

Well I think it's pretty. YMMV.

Oh - and for a few dollars more you can get it in steel frame.
 
Wufflykins said:
If I might offer a second suggestion - much in line with the K100 for your consideration:

DSCN7059.jpg


A Baikal Viking MP-446 - Now you've probably never heard of Baikal: It's the Western trading name for the folks who brought the world the Makarov (another fantastic bit of kit).

What you get for the modest sum that you'll spend on these is one of the toughest and most reliable polymer frame pistols you'll see on the market to day.

In my experience the trigger on it is great and out of the thousand odd rounds I've put through of varying and dubious quality it has not failed to feed/fire/eject once.

At all.

Ever.

And pretty much every review you'll find on the 'net backs this up.

It's aesthetics is hit and miss with people - to me it's got the rugged russian 'is built like tractor' feel to it. One of those guns that's so ugly it's pretty.

Well I think it's pretty. YMMV.

Oh - and for a few dollars more you can get it in steel frame.
Click to expand...

The Viking is an excellent pistol. I have had mine for about 10 years. 8500 + rounds and still going strong. I love it I wouldn't replace it with anything

Only one problem finding mags for it is close to impossible. If you end up buying one make sure you get extra mags.
 
mildlyconcerned said:
Hello.

I've been out of "guns" for nearly 20 years, back then everybody had the CZ-75 or a .45 and loved them.
Lately, i've been looking at getting back into it, and want to pick something up, reasonably cheap, and of a great quality.

With that in mind, i've settled on a couple choices. One being the Norinco NP34, and the other, i'm not even sure is legal due to barrel length. That one being...god i have no idea what the hell the name of the company is so bear with me...its a mouthful (lol!) Yavuz 16 Girsan? MC 27E.
But that weapon has a 98.5mm barrel length, which i'm reasonably sure isn't legal limit for Canada. Any thoughts on what to do? Beyond just save up the money and buy a surplus Sig 228...?

Anyhow, those are the 2 i've narrowed down to. If anyone has thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or can think of something better... do let me know. My considerations are mainly self defense/protection, plinking and farting around.
Click to expand...


resizegirsan_zps69c85bc8.jpg


This is the only Yavuz 16 gun available in Canada, the Regard, a Beretta 92f clone. It's been a great gun so far. Not one problem, but if you like the K 100, you might like this also.
imagesCAOKXVWO_zpsb80c2bdf.jpg


Only problem, it's from Marstar, it is still on web site but not currently in stock, so I'm probably in for a long wait, with no guarantee I'll ever see it. It is the Tisas Zigana Sport, and like the Girsan, is also from Turkey.
 
Yes. I had to rule out anything from Yasvuz as what i want from them isn't legal barrel in canada, and everything else is a beretta 92 clone or variant which i absolutely do not want at all.

That russian gun looks great, and its in all steel? Certainly will check into that, but i have to say the issue with magazines being hard to get, does raise a bit of concern.
The K100... yeah, thats a lot more polymer than i was looking for. Daaaamn. Perhaps i'm just overthinking. Time to hit a few shops and see what these feel like in my hands, because end of the day, thats also a huge deciding factor.
 
Check out the Tangfolio Combat sport. Freedom ventures has them. Internally it's a cz, longer dust cover on the bottom of the frame help tame the recoil. For a little over $500 it's pretty hard to beat. All steel, takes cz mags. Frame mounted cocked and locked safety. I've gone over to the dark side of plastic and it's the only steel pistol other than my sig .22 that survived the purge.
 
Looks like the Browning Hi Power has a couple of qualities you're looking for. Reasonably cheap isn't one of them. They do have ageless quality though, don't see too many for sale, unlike the cookie cutter types out there.
 
jwillmoore said:
The Viking is an excellent pistol. I have had mine for about 10 years. 8500 + rounds and still going strong. I love it I wouldn't replace it with anything

Only one problem finding mags for it is close to impossible. If you end up buying one make sure you get extra mags.
Click to expand...

+1

Extra mags don't seem to be a problem in Australia fortunately.

In an attempt to keep this as unbiased as possible I'll offer my thoughts on the gun.

I own the polymer variant but could've bought the steel for about $100-$150 more. (Guns are very expensive here).

Stacked up against the two other 9mm I have extensive experience with:

CZ-75 SP01 Shadow, Glock 17 Gen 3, and of course Viking MP-446.


Price:

CZ-75 SP01 Shadow: $1400 - 4 mags.

Glock 17 Gen 3, $700 - 2 mags.

Viking MP-446 (Polymer), $600 - 2 Mags.

Reliability:


The viking by far feeds the most reliably, I've shot ~1500 rounds through it and it has not failed once - in any capacity. Something to do with the rather unique dual feed ramp (you usually only see those on SMG's and AR's).

The CZ feed great if you give it the right ammo - it likes to gum up with Winchester factory loads every now and then other than that perfect.

The Glock is by far the worst here, maybe 1/75 rounds jams it - seems to be a lot of them that do this too.


Accuracy:

The CZ takes the cake here - but being all steel and twice the price of the others it bloody well should - that being said my Viking remains reasonably competitive out to 50m. The Glock doesn't compare here with groupings twice the size of the viking at 50m.


Trigger:

CZ is the best all round here, being the lightest by far in DA; single action however the viking is just as crisp (this was a big surprise as I've not shot any pistol with as nice a trigger as the CZ75 save for a tanfoglio custom HC ~$3000).
The glock is famous for it's crappy trigger, and my experience is no different - irritating to use with the frustration only compounded by having to work with the every infuriating "Safe Action" trigger system.

Weight: Glock wins here, but only by a hair - the viking (~840g) comes in at only 80 grams heavier than the glock (760ish). CZ is 1250g.


With all this in mind the Viking makes for a steal - far better than a glock for less money feels better in the hands too. (Not hating on Glock's they're good for the money you pay, but the Viking makes a far better value proposition).

The CZ is the better of the three - but it costs twice as much. The question is - is it twice as good? The answer is no. So for someone on a budget it's pretty hard to beat the Viking.

Here's a guy blitzing an IPSC course with a polymer Viking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8taAke8Gs


Accessories:

This has been the weakness of the viking up until recently - there's now a good range of high quality Thermo-molded Plastic Holsters for the viking on the market now from Ghost Holsters International (Amadini).
Mags are easier to get now than they have been previously (according to the Baikal australia rep). Parts are still at little bothersome to get.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Jericho 941, it is a solid, accurate gun for the money, the only gripe is the frame mounted decocker but it really is not a deal breaker
 
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