44-75 Winchester questions re old cape gun

[farshot]

I picked up a Geo Fisher cape gun. It was made in Liege and has the normal stylized "L" stamp and the "E K G *" in an oval stamp.

It is a bottom break action - looks like it was based off of or was a Husqavara Model 17.

It is a little rough in places (LOL), but I thought I would give it a go to get back to a decent condition.

12 gauge on the one side (my gauge measures 2 3/4"). The underside of that bbl is stamped "18.2"

The rifle bbl on the right side is stamped on the bottom "9.8"

I slugged the bore - it came out as 10.0 mm or 0.399-0.401 inch groove diameter.

As you notice in the picture

The rib is stamped "44/75 Winch Cartg"


I formed a chamber cast with wax and measured as follows:

Rim diameter .558 or 14.18 mm

Neck diameter near the black marks (I believe to be the neck end) is 0.432 inch or 10.97 mm

Base diameter 0.463 inch or 11.76mm

Length from base to where I think I see a slight "bump" in the cast which I assume to be the end of the brass and the beginning of the area for the bullet is 1.26 inch or 32.02 mm

Length from base to where the rifling begins is 1.68 inch or 42.79 mm



What the heck is this round? I can not see it being 44/75 Win. Nothing looks like a re-bore or an insert having been done.

I know the 9.8 reflects the land to land diameter likely - so I believe it to be a 40 cal or 10mm.


I did drive in a 9.3 x 74R into the chamber (it went in easy) - and that is in the picture - you can see the brass change from the chamber to rifling. The rim fit perfectly in the extractor. The rifling looks a bit different in that I pushed it in twice.

The bottom cartridge is a 44 mag case for comparison. It fit as well. The rim a bit too loose, and the diameter at the mouth a bit too wide.

Staring at the books and charts - I thought maybe a 38-40 Winchester. It has a .401 bore and the cartridge dimensions looks right

Any help is appreciated

 

[Sharps '63]

Are you sure about the case length? It looks longer. If it is, then it resembles the 44-77 Sharps case at 2-1/4", except for bullet diameter. In .40 calibre, it resembles the 40-70 Remington at 2-1/4". Rim diameter is moot as the European maker could do whatever he wanted.

The stamping on your rifle could be bogus or just wildly inaccurate.

This from: "Cartridges" by Herschel C. Logan

 

[farshot]

Thnaks Sharps - the length does look longer, but the rifling goes right to the mouth of the "case" I assume that the bullet does not sit in with the rifling when chambered.

That is why I am guessing the mouth of the brass stops at where the 2 black marks are - I could be wrong and the bullet could be set deeper into the brass and the length longer.

 

[mooncoon]

Are you sure about the case length? It looks longer. If it is, then it resembles the 44-77 Sharps case at 2-1/4", except for bullet diameter.

The bullet is the same diameter as a 38-40 (.401) The 44-77 sharp's bullet is somewhere in the mid 440 - 450 range and the base is I think around .515 (without checking). I am wondering if the gun is some sort of express caliber meaning a lot of powder and a light bullet intended to maximize velocity. You can establish the heaviest bullet the gun will stabilize using the Greenhill formula of L = 150 D squared over T and use a bullet a bit shorter than predicted

Perhaps more importantly, you need to compare the dimensions of your chamber cast with various cartridges listed in Cartridges of the world and see which one is the closest fit. Don't be surprised if the chamber is a little larger than the listed dimensions of its cartridge.

The shotgun barrel sounds like it is a 12 guage choked to just under 16 guage and it would not surprise me if the muzzle was smaller yet. I had a cape gun several years ago that was bored that way.

cheers mooncoon