LE No 1 blowup or how not to dissemble a Lee Enfield (Update post #97)

[tootall]

I am in the habit of making up a little paper label to insert into the powder measure, as an added precaution.

oh really, 303's thru a 280???? And just how, pray tell, did they get those 311 diameter slugs through that 287 bore. I mean a little squeezing, is sure to work, I've fired 358s through a 9mm barrel ( rifle ). but...... a full box????? not to mention the rimmed versus the rimless headspacing problems ah well

I recall reading that someone had a Japanese Arisaka rechambered but not rebarreled for 30-06. So the 30-06 would fit into the chamber, then the 30 cal bullet would get swaged down to 6.5mm (~.260). So it can happen.

 

[jsmurd]

oh for sure, anything can happen. I have had .284 diameter Hornadys slug up in the 280 Ross bore (.288 ), and I have loaded 9 x57 Mauser ( .3566) cartridges with .358 hornady spire points.
in the above instance, the 30-06 case should fit the chamber that was rechambered for it but .308 down to .264 in one pass is hard to swallow. So, the question is, will the 303 physically fit into the 280 Ross chamber ... my faith in the Ross action is just not THAT deep.

 

[Claven2]

303 WILL physically fit in a .280 chamber. .280 has a huge base and is longer enough that it will work, though obviously it's a very bad idea.

 

[bdft]

So, the question is, will the 303 physically fit into the 280 Ross chamber ... my faith in the Ross action is just not THAT deep.

Let's try it. This time you shoot and I'll pick up the pieces afterward.

 

[smellie]

There was a case of .303 in a .280 Ross in Alberta, too. It was well-documentd in "The American Rifleman".

Blew the Extractor out of the rifle. Extractor replaced with a military one and the rifle continued in use.

I am very happy that THIS issue has been resolved.

I exalt at our friend's good fortune in coming away uninjured exactly as I mourn the destruction of a wonderful old rifle.

 

[Colin]

I am very careful to look at each powder container to make sure I have the right one, and check the powders are the same prior to topping up the hopper, I have used labels, but think I will be even more careful after this. thanks for the info and glad you got awya ok.

 

[jamesharrison]

Outstanding! My respect for my favourite rifle grows & grows, especially the Long Lees, upon which my favourite Lee Speeds are made!

I couldn't find any reference to the bullet weights in the OP's handloads, & my forum back button doesn't work right now, but it looks to me to be either Sierra 150 or 180 grain GameKing bullets, but it could be one of S. Redgwell's 200 grain Mk. VIII grain bullets.

A quick session with QUICKLOAD reveals a predicted pressure level of 168,100 psi, in the case of the 150 grain bullets, 184,403 psi, in the case of the 180 grain bullets & 186,290 psi, in the case of the 200 grain bullets for a 38.0 gr. charge of Titegroup.

It would be VERY interesting to see what that level of charge would do to a Mauser, although I wouldn't do it, especially with one of my Mausers, nor would I recommend to anyone else to do it to one of theirs, regardless of whether or not they have it tied to a tire with a long rip cord.

One final observation: Good thing the OP isn't a Southpaw like me when he lit the fuse on that bomb!

 

[tiriaq]

When a cartridge is loaded with a powder that will reduce grossly excessive pressures, it is the case that fails first, and this will occur before pressures reach the dramatic numbers in James's post. After that, the results will depend on how the rifle's design handles the released high pressure gases. Some designs are vastly superior to others.
Ackley's blowup tests are revealing.
Some very popular rifles don't fare well at all. It is fortunate that catastrophic releases of pressure, as occurred here, are rare occurrences.
It is generally conceded that the Remington 700 is the best commonly available commercial design from the standpoint of protecting the shooter. The Mauser is better than the Springfield and its commercial cousins, the 54 and 70 Winchesters.

 

[RRCo.]

Outstanding! My respect for my favourite rifle grows & grows, especially the Long Lees, upon which my favourite Lee Speeds are made!

I couldn't find any reference to the bullet weights in the OP's handloads, & my forum back button doesn't work right now, but it looks to me to be either Sierra 150 or 180 grain GameKing bullets, but it could be one of S. Redgwell's 200 grain Mk. VIII grain bullets.

A quick session with QUICKLOAD reveals a predicted pressure level of 168,100 psi, in the case of the 150 grain bullets, 184,403 psi, in the case of the 180 grain bullets & 186,290 psi, in the case of the 200 grain bullets for a 38.0 gr. charge of Titegroup.

It would be VERY interesting to see what that level of charge would do to a Mauser, although I wouldn't do it, especially with one of my Mausers, nor would I recommend to anyone else to do it to one of theirs, regardless of whether or not they have it tied to a tire with a long rip cord.

One final observation: Good thing the OP isn't a Southpaw like me when he lit the fuse on that bomb!

Went shooting yesterday morning and took a new to me No1 Mk 1 to try out....I was shooting 38 grns of 4895 behind a 150 grain flatbased bullet, the same load I shoot in my other No 1 Mk 1 and my no 4 with no problems....

....

 

[bdft]

When a cartridge is loaded with a powder that will reduce grossly excessive pressures, it is the case that fails first, and this will occur before pressures reach the dramatic numbers in James's post. After that, the results will depend on how the rifle's design handles the released high pressure gases. Some designs are vastly superior to others.
.

From my (rather close) observation, in my case, the action stretched about 1/4" opening up the gap between the bolt head and the face of the chamber. (Is that too much headspace, Sunray? ) This allowed the rim and the bottom 1/4" of the case to separate and blow out the hole. While all this was going on, a (approx) 1" piece of the receiver ring left the country. I found the case rim on the ground below the shooting bench, I never did find the piece of receiver ring. The front half of the case left in the chamber was essentially undamaged. The bullet also left the barrel. Considering that the bullet was going down the barrel at 2000+ ft/sec, it certainly didn't leave much time for the above to happen. Huge pressure spike obviously.

 

[jsmurd]

There was a case of .303 in a .280 Ross in Alberta, too. It was well-documentd in "The American Rifleman".

Blew the Extractor out of the rifle. Extractor replaced with a military one and the rifle continued in use.

I am very happy that THIS issue has been resolved.

I exalt at our friend's good fortune in coming away uninjured exactly as I mourn the destruction of a wonderful old rifle.

One article in The American Rifleman does not resolve the issue. One sprung extractor does not make the case for firing a box , or even half a box of 303 through a 280. Bear in mind that these people also used to produce articles by Phil Sharpe, the original Ross hater

 

[RRCo.]

One article in The American Rifleman does not resolve the issue. One sprung extractor does not make the case for firing a box , or even half a box of 303 through a 280. Bear in mind that these people also used to produce articles by Phil Sharpe, the original Ross hater

I have a shot out M10 .280 barreled action here; no sights or trigger guard, but the trigger mech is there of course. It's been badly polished and reblued, but it is a genuine M10 .280. I might just try this out one day.

Getting back to the blown up Lee Enfield though, it looks like the "stretchiness" of the action helped prevent a really catastrophic bursting. It would make an interesting high speed film to see the order of failure, but the total failure of the receiver ring and the flying out of the barrel may have prevented something worse.

 

[woodchopper]

From my (rather close) observation, in my case, the action stretched about 1/4" opening up the gap between the bolt head and the face of the chamber. (Is that too much headspace, Sunray? ) This allowed the rim and the bottom 1/4" of the case to separate and blow out the hole. While all this was going on, a (approx) 1" piece of the receiver ring left the country. I found the case rim on the ground below the shooting bench, I never did find the piece of receiver ring. The front half of the case left in the chamber was essentially undamaged. The bullet also left the barrel. Considering that the bullet was going down the barrel at 2000+ ft/sec, it certainly didn't leave much time for the above to happen. Huge pressure spike obviously.

I dont think that the action streached 1/4" thats where the web of the case starts getting much thicker and where your bullets will have case head seperation.

if your range has a roof you should look to see if the missing chunk of receiver is embedded up there.

sad to see a nice old enfield blown up