Lightweight pellets + magnum springer = disaster.

leonardj

CGN Regular
Rating - 98.2%
54   1   0
Location
Ontario
Perhaps some folks may think the term "disaster" in the subject line to be somewhat over-dramatic, but what else would best describe the destruction of a spring gun's maninspring, spring guide, and piston seal, as well as leaving the gun impossible to #### due to the aforementioned damage?

The pic below is the remains of the mainspring removed from a Diana Model 52 that was purchased new only a few months ago. As can be seen, it has been broken into five distinct pieces, and has broken at both ends. In addition, there are several fractures that have not yet broken all the way through, but if they had, that spring would be in at least eight pieces. The spring guide was broken into several pieces, and the piston seal was burned black as coal. Certainly not the degree of damage that one would expect to find in an airgun only a few months old, and from a reputable manufacturer.

5pcspring01.jpg


I had my suspicions of what had caused the damage, so when I called the owner to inform him of what I had found, I asked him specifically, what pellets he was using. The answer came as no surprise to me - the gun had been fed a steady diet of Skenco Poly Match pellets, and Gamo Raptor pellets, weighing in at 4.0 grains, and 5.4 grains respectively. When I asked him why on earth he would use such light pellets in a magnum class springer, he told me that they were recommended by the retailer, as well as his own on-line (forum) buddies.

I proceeded to tell him that he had been badly misinformed, and went on to explain the reason that these light pellets had caused the damage that they did. I recommended that at least 10 - 10.5 grain pellets should be used from this point forward.

I have always found the Diana 48/52 rifles to be a bit harsh with regard to firing cycle, so I cannot begin to imagine just how nasty firing a 4.0 grain pellet must have been. It had to have rattled the shooters teeth. During the course of test firing the repaired rifle, I set the 10.5 grain CPH pellets aside, and tried a couple of 8.4 grain RWS SuperDomes. The increase in report and harshness was astounding.

The 8.4 grain SuperDomes chronied at 1070 FPS, so I cannot imagine what the 4.0 grain Skenco pellets would have registered.
The 10.5 grain CPH pellets chronied at 960 FPS, and resulted in a much more comfortable shot cycle.
 
I bet he was a speed freak who just wanted the absolute fastest velocity he could attain.
Explain to him that using super light pellets is like smacking a ping pong ball as hard as you can.
No matter how hard you drive it, it does not have the weight to carry it any distance, and it will be on the ground very soon.

Thanks for the pics. Can we see the other bits as well?
 
I bet he was a speed freak who just wanted the absolute fastest velocity he could attain.
Explain to him that using super light pellets is like smacking a ping pong ball as hard as you can.
No matter how hard you drive it, it does not have the weight to carry it any distance, and it will be on the ground very soon.

Thanks for the pics. Can we see the other bits as well?
Using these lightweight pellets in a springer like the Diana 48/52 is essentially like dry firing the gun repeatedly.

Due to my camera battery going flat, and a later "senior moment", I didn't get pics of the other damaged bits.:redface:
 
Last edited:
I thought this was common knowledge by now... :slap: ...and keeping the pellets subsonic for accuracy/stability?

then again, the more people are intrigued by this 'ultimate super fast velocity BS' and shooting those stupid tin/plastic pellets the more they break rifles, and more parts get sold!

probably the same kid drives a Honda civic with an oversized muffler in 2nd gear at 5000rpms never shifting.
 
Wow, interesting thread. Curious as to the main tube, any gouges or other damage there?
No, there were no gouges or galling of the main tube.
When I received it, the gun could not be cocked, so that is probably what kept the owner from doing more damage by continued use.
 
I wonder if the guy could hit anything at all with those pellets cracking the sound barrier and probably tumbling along at 1300+ fps.
 
Leonard,
You mentioned that: " the piston seal was burned black as coal."
What would cause that? Was he putting oil in the chamber to cause a diesel detonation?
 
Leonard,
You mentioned that: " the piston seal was burned black as coal."
What would cause that? Was he putting oil in the chamber to cause a diesel detonation?

I'd have agree.
Chamber oil has a different flash point when compared to general purpose oils and is designed not to damage the seals.
I've even heard of rare circumstances when detonation caused the chamber to crack.
 
Leonard,
You mentioned that: " the piston seal was burned black as coal."
What would cause that? Was he putting oil in the chamber to cause a diesel detonation?
Yes - a burnt piston seal is usually the result of continued severe dieseling, or detonation.
I didn't specifically ask if he was trying to promote detonation by adding fuel to the chamber, but I have seen similar damage to seals just as a result of prolonged detonation from shooting super light pellets. The lighter the pellet, the more quickly the pressure builds, thus the greater the adiabatic heating of the air in the compression chamber, resulting in a burnt seal.

Sureshot_ca - yes - severe detonation can indeed cause the end of the compression chamber to swell, or crack. I have even seen detonation blow the front of the compression chamber clean out of the gun.
 
I'm probably going to get yelled at for this, but I put a drop of ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in to the compression chamber about every 300 shots. I work the piston back and forth without cocking the gun. I put it in the corner, muzzle up (uncocked) and let it sit overnight. First shot sometimes diesels, sometimes not. ATF has a very high flash point and seems to work well for me. You guys with all the experience -am I screwing up my gun? In amongst all the bs on the internet, I found quite a few folks using ATF. I use ATF as a general purpose lubricant on my firearms, usually thinned with a little mineral spirits. I know -mineral spirits never go into the compression chamber! The gun is shooting smoother, faster, quieter and more accurate the more I shoot it so I guess I'm not screwing it up too bad. It's a Crosman Fury and chronos 950 with lead wadcutters.

What is the expert opinion? Should I keep doing the ATF thing?
 
I haven't heard of ATF used for that before but it probably is as good as anything, you shouldn't have to do it that often maybe every couple thousand shots and now with synthetic seals it shouldn't be necessary. Usually when a person wants to lube a synthetic seal gun its done in the tear down and lube process, many people source a moly paste 60% or higher and very sparingly apply some to the back or the seal aswell as the other end of the piston where ever wear is shown. Some even burnish the compression portion of the tube with moly paste but you have to use very little, maybe just enough to dull the shine. After polishing the ends of the spring a little moly is good there to. Lately I have tried Krytox gpl205 on the seal, its supposed to be better for synthetics and when I chronied after it made for a very consistent shot string, personally I would only lubricate the piston seal with oil if it was a leather.
 
Back
Top Bottom