SQUAREHEAD1
Regular
- Location
- ONTARIO
At 400 yards the 223/5,56 has as much energy as a spear gold dot 9mm hollowpoint at point-blank range I wouldn't want to get hit by one at 400 yards...
T97 barrel issue AND NRR WISHLIST!!!
- Thread starter ted_dent
- Start date
At 400 yards the 223/5,56 has as much energy as a spear gold dot 9mm hollowpoint at point-blank range I wouldn't want to get hit by one at 400 yards...
twyeh
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Cancuckistan
Enlarged fire selector like on the QJB95
50 yards? It's a rifle not a slingshot...lol
That's the problem with most of the reviews I see....."groups great at 25 yards, shoots 2 inches all day at 50 yards" thats literally .22lr range....why not just buy a .22 then?
Then we have one review at the other end of the spectrum....holding 6" groups at 300m.
And now a "no point shooting past 200m with it" because an m155 may not frag.....omfg.
diesel_weasel666
CGN Regular
All in all, I'm just glad to own a decent bullpup that didn't require me spending long nights trolling a truck stop in my 'Smoky' outfit to finance it. It could have even come to me doing something even more embarrassing for a bullpup like door knocking for the Liberal Party.
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- Location
- MY HOME
Enlarged fire selector like on the QJB95
Damnnnn that gave me a boner
SQUAREHEAD1
Regular
- Location
- ONTARIO
Exactly… LOL. That's why was trying to explain to him that it wouldn't be very nice to get hit with one even at 400 yards!
Or 750 yds etc etc
Nothing anyone says on here surprises me anymore though, it's just mind-boggling… And you know that people have just been reading the Internet especially the 'fragmentation 200 yd' thing.
I pay money to see someone (in person) shoot a 6 inch group at 300 m with their t97!
Ps/ The 2" 50 yard group probably didn't include a flyer!
Exactly… LOL. That's why was trying to explain to him that it wouldn't be very nice to get hit with one even at 400 yards!
Or 750 yds etc etc
Nothing anyone says on here surprises me anymore though, it's just mind-boggling… And you know that people have just been reading the Internet especially the 'fragmentation 200 yd' thing.
I pay money to see someone (in person) shoot a 6 inch group at 300 m with their t97!
Ps/ The 2" 50 yard group probably didn't include a flyer!
Is it that hard to ask that someone knows what they are doing, loads up some 75-80-grainers for the 1/7 twist, takes it out to 400m minimum, cuz until then I will have no idea what these are really capable of....lol
winnipegger
CGN frequent flyer
GUB
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- West Kelowna B.C.
Since it was brought up about the 5.56 M193 round . I have reread the wikipedia article on the 5.56x45 Nato round. A lot of info! The days of a FMJ round passing cleanly through a enemy combatant are long gone.A bullet failure is when the round exits the body of a enemy soldier WITHOUT yawing and fragmenting. The U.S. special forces are favoring the 77 grain MK262 round. That fragments violently at short range and also has a long fragmentation range to fire through the M4A1 carbines. To make up any shortcomings of the standard issue M855A1 round they recommend a double tap . One to the head and one to the chest cavity. Think Osama Bin Ladan!!!!
Relax - man, you're going to give yourself a stroke.
It just so happens that I get out to shoot 200 yards maybe once 2-3 months, and when I do, I'd rather shoot my .30 caliber rifles which I know past 200 yards stand a much better chance at putting something down. In my province, you can't even large game with a .223.
The niche to the T97 anyways is that it literally is a variant of a rifle designed to be almost like a light machine gun. I've shot a LMG before - and let me tell you, accuracy is through volume of fire - not a function of the gun itself. While you or I might not legally ever get the privilege to use our guns as anything other than 5 round range queens or varmint gun, it's still interesting to know and understand the unique characteristics of it. Personally I think it's a nice to know that by simply by having a gas selector with an adverse setting, other factors aside, you could reliably unload a very high volume of fire in a very short period of time. Furthermore, one thing I haven't tried - and I suspect not many others have tried is how is the T97 accuracy like with the gas setting set to 0? I accidentally fired off a round my last trip with it set to zero, and it's a very different feeling vs shooting it semi-auto.
To that point, IMO, the ballistic characteristics of the round are of paramount importance, even if there are few conceivable situations where it would actually be useful.
As an anecdotal example, the fragmenting threshold of .223 really means the difference of bleeding out over a period of several minutes or being instantly rendered incapacitated. Most hunters and combat veterans know there is a very big difference between the two - the difference is your quarry running 2 miles or an enemy combatant launching an RPG in your direction versus your dinner/the bad guy dropping dead on the ground instantly.
I will be punching lots of holes in paper with my rifle - but that that is probably all I will ever do with mine I don't take as an excuse to not give consideration to what that rifle is capable of OTHER than putting holes in paper.
SQUAREHEAD1
Regular
- Location
- ONTARIO
Yikes, keep diggin...
- Location
- vancouver
Ok people, lets keep calm and carry on.
Most of all rifles created in the past 200 years can go very well beyond 200 yards.
A breech loading martin henry rifle used in the zulu and boer wars can go up to 1800 yards, yes WOW! Thats 1.64 kilometers guys! for a rifle created in the 1870s with a black powder charge that's pretty damn good.
Effective range is dependent on the shooter 99.9% of the time, not the firearm.
Now I for myself can't shoot anything with any respect past 100 yards regardless of rifle or cartridge. So that's me, I don't have delusions of being a good shooter, i know I'm a poor to mediocre shooter. But who cares! it's my firearm, it's my cartridges, it's my range time, who gives a damn if I can't shoot past 100 yards... If everyone here would follow in my footsteps then maybe we'd stop blaming the firearms and cartridge for effective range.
Now that being said. problems with feeding and problems with ejecting (aside from poor maintenance and cleaning) are definitely a firearm issue and have nothing to do with the shooter. I cannot tolerate any problems with feeding or extracting in a firearm, I just can't, its like saying a car runs well but once in a while the gas just wont get to the engine and it stalls. WTF really???
No there is no excuse for these types of problems, I don't care if it's a bolt action rem 700, a pump shotgun, a semi auto, a lever gun, it must always feed and extract, otherwise it's a defective gun and should be avoided.
Most of all rifles created in the past 200 years can go very well beyond 200 yards.
A breech loading martin henry rifle used in the zulu and boer wars can go up to 1800 yards, yes WOW! Thats 1.64 kilometers guys! for a rifle created in the 1870s with a black powder charge that's pretty damn good.
Effective range is dependent on the shooter 99.9% of the time, not the firearm.
Now I for myself can't shoot anything with any respect past 100 yards regardless of rifle or cartridge. So that's me, I don't have delusions of being a good shooter, i know I'm a poor to mediocre shooter. But who cares! it's my firearm, it's my cartridges, it's my range time, who gives a damn if I can't shoot past 100 yards... If everyone here would follow in my footsteps then maybe we'd stop blaming the firearms and cartridge for effective range.
Now that being said. problems with feeding and problems with ejecting (aside from poor maintenance and cleaning) are definitely a firearm issue and have nothing to do with the shooter. I cannot tolerate any problems with feeding or extracting in a firearm, I just can't, its like saying a car runs well but once in a while the gas just wont get to the engine and it stalls. WTF really???
No there is no excuse for these types of problems, I don't care if it's a bolt action rem 700, a pump shotgun, a semi auto, a lever gun, it must always feed and extract, otherwise it's a defective gun and should be avoided.
Harble...dude.....CGN is not the place to be fantasizing about shooting people with your sporting rifle. Find a COD forum for that nonsense.
Or join the military, then you can discuss it all day long in the proper context. But don't pull that armchair moronic wanna be bad ass soldier #### on here, we are legal, law abiding citizens and that sort of discussion isn't tolerated.
Or join the military, then you can discuss it all day long in the proper context. But don't pull that armchair moronic wanna be bad ass soldier #### on here, we are legal, law abiding citizens and that sort of discussion isn't tolerated.
Getting this thread back on track - I've been discussing the ballistics of .223 for a while on this thread here:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...up-my-Norc-10-5-inch-AR?p=9253286#post9253286
I reiterate my point - the T97 is a variant of a military assault rifle. That is the appeal to it - and I am satisfied with it and have my preorder with CanAm in for a 3rd. With the flaws it has now, I think it is still worth the money.
If CanAm can iron out the kinks AND lower the price - it is an even better deal.
(Moving original reply to the other thread).
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...up-my-Norc-10-5-inch-AR?p=9253286#post9253286
I reiterate my point - the T97 is a variant of a military assault rifle. That is the appeal to it - and I am satisfied with it and have my preorder with CanAm in for a 3rd. With the flaws it has now, I think it is still worth the money.
If CanAm can iron out the kinks AND lower the price - it is an even better deal.
(Moving original reply to the other thread).
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diesel_weasel666
CGN Regular
Okay.....So you want an even better gun? Any you want it for a lower price too.
I want to be as rich as Bill Gates and and hung like Peter North. I'd say our chances are about even.
5440fight
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under a rock, trolling bugs.
Gee, I don't get it. I shot my T97 yesterday. No FTF, FTE, small groups, little recoil, none of the chrome flew out, my optic was comfortable, held zero, and no targets kept fighting after I perforated them.
Why all the drama?
Can't wait until you get yours in Can Am- I need a second one I can dress up different.
Why all the drama?
Can't wait until you get yours in Can Am- I need a second one I can dress up different.
bcbravo2zero
CGN Regular
Yep, with a little break-in and some filing of the grey LAR15 mags my T97 is doing the same.
The anti-nsr hyperbole in this thread is pretty goofy. It's a great little gun IMO.
Still looking forward to an NRR though! I think this will be the one to get the flat-top treatment.
Agreed with the name change, but I think it should be called T97DAR (Dominion Arms Rifle) or better yet, Type 97C ("civilian" or "Canada"
).Type 97 (original, still used by Chinese PMC since 5.56 is easier to find in Darfur)
Type 97A
Type 97B
If you enlarge the fire selector switch like on the QBB-95/97 , add tritium iron sights, lower the sight line like on the QBZ 95-1, add threaded flashhider and bayonet lug, two picitinny rail slots on each side of the front sight's base, ambi magazine release, and two metal threads molded into the front handguard to accept magpul MOE rails, it'd be better than the QBZ 97A that the cambodian special forces use. Hell, almost as good as the QBZ 95-1 to be a separate variant. But, I suppose at that point you might as well go all the way and import the QBZ 97-1 so we get the fire selector switch on the pistol grip
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burnt_servo
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- right in the middle of b.c.
well seeing as we have a wish list going here .....
I want one of these chambered in 7mm tcu in a 20 inch target barrel .
or at least one with a barrel that threads into the action ( I have read that the barrels are pinned to the action) .
I want one of these chambered in 7mm tcu in a 20 inch target barrel .
or at least one with a barrel that threads into the action ( I have read that the barrels are pinned to the action) .
