ORIGINAL Artillerie Inrichtingen AR-10. Which are restricted? which are prohib?

wbaad

wbaad

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Hi,
Wondering if there are any verifiers out there or any knowledgeable gunnutz Know if there were any restricted or even Non-restricted Dutch Artillerie Inrichtingen / Armalite
AR-10 rifles produced that made it into Canada? How can you tell the difference between the Holy grail and the one that will put you in jail? This may be covered elsewhere but I haven't seen much since these guns are quite rare.
Thanks Everyone!
 
OK so the key would be if it has/had the Auto selection, And non-restricted since the ar15 is a derivative of the ar-10 and not the other way round? Seems kind of a gray area...
 
There was a court case related to this, so there's at least one in Canada. Most of the ones that are here are prohib 12.3, regardless of how they are registered. I've heard this 2 ways, first, the NR ones have no F/A mark on the selector, and no auto sear facility, and secondly that they have all 3 positions, plus facility for the auto sear, but were made in a single location which didn't produce full autos. There is a member here who was looking for info on these guns, and had made some progress. If one of these guns went up for sale, I would imagine it would go well into the mid-5 figures

Here you go:

http://canadiangunnutz.yuku.com/reply/6628/t/Status-of-Original-AR-10-in-308.html#reply-6628

There's a definitive description of the rifle in the long post.
 
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It might not be listed as an ar10. They imported imported lots of parts kits to the US, sans lower. At least 2 companies started making semi only lowers, most were steel rather than aluminum since aluminum wasn't nearly as common in the consumer side of things at the time. These lowers may have a different name due to copyright at the time.
 
scott585 said:
It might not be listed as an ar10. They imported imported lots of parts kits to the US, sans lower. At least 2 companies started making semi only lowers, most were steel rather than aluminum since aluminum wasn't nearly as common in the consumer side of things at the time. These lowers may have a different name due to copyright at the time.
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Would those lowers not then be variants, as not original?
 
enefgee said:
The court ordered the rifle returned (see link) there must be some sort of NR FRT listing, even if there's only 1 in the country, otherwise Mr Smiths FRT is incomplete and unreliable.
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If it isn't a C/A or F/A it wouldn't fall under the 4 other FRT listings, and should have it's own FRT entry as a semi auto. Regardless of the ruling, there is no FRT number for it.
 
Armmalite did a 5K or so run of what they called the AR-10B back a ways about 10 years or so. It was right after they became Armalite inc after Westrom purchased the company.

It was a reproduction of the original AR-10 with cocking handle under the carry handle sight etc with brown retro furniture and the works.

It was a semi auto only production lower specific to the run and had an A2 brown grip and an A2 style fixed upper carry handle with no Bayonet lug on the gas block.

Don't know if any made it into the country. I doubt it, although when I was chasing this dragon a few years back, I got some wierd message from a guy on here who sent me the name of another guy on the forum who apparently had one in Canada. I messaged him and got no reply.....

Too bad. They are not based on the AR15 design as they predate them considerably, the original AR10 design lower would not fit any AR15 upper or vice versa, the bolt system/cocking handle distinguishes it as a seperate design from the AR15 altogether etc etc

If they did produce them again and someone actually attempted to get it an FRT and have it go through the meat grinder of non logical firearms classification at RCMP however, I would bet every penny in my investments that it would get classified at the very best an AR15 "variant" and restricted or just register it as AR10B restricted on its own.

Fack I hate our gun laws........

Also a fun tidbit here, the original AR10 design actually had the gas tube running along the side of the barrel vice over the top of the barrel as it is now in the AR15 design. The first production ones ran along the side of the barrel and connected into the left side of the receiver just behind the delta ring/rear handgaurd ring. The gas blew into the bolt carrier from here and cycled the action. They later changed it to over the top of the barrel after problems arose in trials.

The more you know! ;)
 
Would those lowers not then be variants, as not original?
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Wouldn't matter, the original AR10 is not a design designated as restricted, any semi auto only variants unless otherwise designated (such as the AR15) should also not be classified as anything other than non restricted, assuming the barrell length is ok.

Armmalite did a 5K or so run of what they called the AR-10B back a ways about 10 years or so. It was right after they became Armalite inc after Westrom purchased the company.

It was a reproduction of the original AR-10 with cocking handle under the carry handle sight etc with brown retro furniture and the works.
Click to expand...

Those Armalites were made to look like the original AR10s but were actually derived from the AR15 and are therefore restricted. I believe some of these did make it into Canada.
 
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Leonidas said:
Wouldn't matter, the original AR10 is not a design designated as restricted, any semi auto only variants unless otherwise designated (such as the AR15) should also not be classified as anything other than non restricted, assuming the barrell length is ok.

Those Armalites were made to look like the original AR10s but were actually derived from the AR15 and are therefore restricted. I believe some of these did make it into Canada.
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How so were they derived?

Was it an AR15 lower?

Could the AR-10B upper drop onto a standard AR15 lower?

Everything I ever read about them and all the pics I have seen said they were a complete retooling from scratch.

The only parts that would matter would be the lower anyhow, was the lower an AR15 lower?
 
Travis Bickle said:
Armmalite did a 5K or so run of what they called the AR-10B back a ways about 10 years or so. It was right after they became Armalite inc after Westrom purchased the company.

It was a reproduction of the original AR-10 with cocking handle under the carry handle sight etc with brown retro furniture and the works.

It was a semi auto only production lower specific to the run and had an A2 brown grip and an A2 style fixed upper carry handle with no Bayonet lug on the gas block.

Don't know if any made it into the country. I doubt it, although when I was chasing this dragon a few years back, I got some wierd message from a guy on here who sent me the name of another guy on the forum who apparently had one in Canada. I messaged him and got no reply.....

Too bad. They are not based on the AR15 design as they predate them considerably, the original AR10 design lower would not fit any AR15 upper or vice versa, the bolt system/cocking handle distinguishes it as a seperate design from the AR15 altogether etc etc

If they did produce them again and someone actually attempted to get it an FRT and have it go through the meat grinder of non logical firearms classification at RCMP however, I would bet every penny in my investments that it would get classified at the very best an AR15 "variant" and restricted or just register it as AR10B restricted on its own.

Fack I hate our gun laws........

Also a fun tidbit here, the original AR10 design actually had the gas tube running along the side of the barrel vice over the top of the barrel as it is now in the AR15 design. The first production ones ran along the side of the barrel and connected into the left side of the receiver just behind the delta ring/rear handgaurd ring. The gas blew into the bolt carrier from here and cycled the action. They later changed it to over the top of the barrel after problems arose in trials.

The more you know! ;)
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We did import at least one of these AR10B but all are considered restricted despite all my attempts at the time to argue that the new Armlite AR10 from Mark Westrom should be non restricted.

I think there may be a handful or original AR 10 rifles that were made semi auto, in Canada. I was told as a survival rifles for KLM! I was offered one but felt the price was to high at the time. These rifles would be non restricted.
 
Hi John,
How were the rifles made non restricted? They must have milled the Auto word off as well as made some other changes...
Are there any photos of those NR KLM guns?
I appreciate the response! You must be a busy man.
 
wbaad said:
Hi John,
How were the rifles made non restricted? They must have milled the Auto word off as well as made some other changes...
Are there any photos of those NR KLM guns?
I appreciate the response! You must be a busy man.
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The original AR10 ( quick ID is that it has a larger diameter bolt than current manufacture models) would be prohibited as either a FA or CA. The very few that left the factory as semi auto only (for KLM?) would be non restricted assuming a barrel over 18.5 inches. This was also true for the HK 94 (semi auto MP5) and 1927 Thompson (semi auto 1928 Thompson) but as these were current production (at that time approx 1995) they were caught by OIC (order in council ) as we could otherwise have imported and sold many. No more semi auto AR10 (original manufacture) were available, so no need for an OIC to catch them, the same was true for a few other interesting firearms but it would be irresponsible to name them here. I hope this is clear, it is differcult to explain some of these details in a quick message.
 
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