Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
This has been a very interesting thread.
Thanks for all the info Sir.
I had never even heard of the KLM set of AR-10's.
The Black Rifle book didn't even mention them!
ORIGINAL Artillerie Inrichtingen AR-10. Which are restricted? which are prohib?
- Thread starter wbaad
- Start date
This has been a very interesting thread.
Thanks for all the info Sir.
I had never even heard of the KLM set of AR-10's.
The Black Rifle book didn't even mention them!
This original Dutch AR-10 belongs to a friend of mine. According to him it was imported into NZ from Canada and being a sniper variant came with a semi-auto only selector. At least thats how I recall it. I will get clarification from him the next time I see him.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
I just remembered something unique about these "KLM?" rifles, the take down and pivot pins were attached with retaining chains so they could not be lost, they came in a short case the upper and lower been disassembled. I do not believe the "KLM?" rifle receiver were not drilled for the "happy parts"! The retaining chains would not be a requirement for a sniper rifle. There were a few military rifles with optics for "Sniping" It would make sense that they were limited to semi auto only but I would expect the receiver to be the same as all other military models. These early AR10 rifles were very underrated, they were a delight to shoot. We have one on display here (CA), will have to dust her off soon.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
Picture of the KLM survival kit with AR10 rifle...
KLM stewardess in winter gear and AR10 rifle...
gadget
Great find Gadget, I knew I wasn't dreaming. I just wish I had purchased the rifle when it was offered to me years ago.
Pure Energy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A river runs through it.
Cool thread guys! Very interesting history.
Mr Wolverine
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoba. Canada
So is their anyone out there who would like to give me the chance to purchase one of these rather unique items now? If so drop me a line, cheers John
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The portuguese sniper rifle is not a factory semi-auto. AI made a removable selector block that fits inside the fire control well and limits the travel of the selector switch. Additionally, many Dutch AR10's in North America have had their switches modified so as to limit their travel.
There are several kinds of Dutch AR10's that were made as semi-autos. I have photos of the selector area for two of variants and lack the same information for the KLM rifles. I would very much like a photo of the selector area of a KLM rifle. I have seen the factory build sheet for the first lot of KLM rifles ordered and is does specifically say they were semi-auto.
The "Armalite Sporting Rifle" is a Sudanese style AR10 that is not marked AR10 and has a selector area as shown below:
The "Armalite Sporting Rifle" lowers appear to have been completely milled for full-auto, but then the sear holes were filled before anodization. About 6 of these rifles are known to exist.
The AR102 Sporter was specifically made for importation into the US with the requirements is that the rifle not be marked as AR10 and a sear block be present. The uppers are serial numbered and those sold in the US are marked Cal 3.08. About 17 of these rifles were manufactured but there rumored to be several fakes. Some AR102 selectors were marked SAFE-SEMI and others being color coded (below).
There are several kinds of Dutch AR10's that were made as semi-autos. I have photos of the selector area for two of variants and lack the same information for the KLM rifles. I would very much like a photo of the selector area of a KLM rifle. I have seen the factory build sheet for the first lot of KLM rifles ordered and is does specifically say they were semi-auto.
The "Armalite Sporting Rifle" is a Sudanese style AR10 that is not marked AR10 and has a selector area as shown below:
The "Armalite Sporting Rifle" lowers appear to have been completely milled for full-auto, but then the sear holes were filled before anodization. About 6 of these rifles are known to exist.
The AR102 Sporter was specifically made for importation into the US with the requirements is that the rifle not be marked as AR10 and a sear block be present. The uppers are serial numbered and those sold in the US are marked Cal 3.08. About 17 of these rifles were manufactured but there rumored to be several fakes. Some AR102 selectors were marked SAFE-SEMI and others being color coded (below).
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Assuming
1. the rifle used Dutch AR10 parts
2. the selector and hammer were made to be semi-auto only
3. there were no AR10 markings anywhere
Would a home made lower receiver result in a non-restricted rifle?
Would an older 1980's US-made lower receiver result in a non-restricted rifle?
1. the rifle used Dutch AR10 parts
2. the selector and hammer were made to be semi-auto only
3. there were no AR10 markings anywhere
Would a home made lower receiver result in a non-restricted rifle?
Would an older 1980's US-made lower receiver result in a non-restricted rifle?
There were semi-auto AR-10s produced at the factory for military contract. The Sudan contract was semi. I know cause I have one. Unfortunately although never equipped with the needed trip sear, it did have the holes drilled to accommodate one. The fire select was blocked by an internal (unfortunately removable) solid block screwed into the bottom of the lower receiver, and the AUTO position marked out.
This is my personal grievance against the whole registration process. When this crap started in 1992, the AR10 wasn't even on the gov's #### list because there were so few of them. I was in transit between careers at the time and applied (voluntarily - more fool me) to register in Quebec; just before moving to BC. Feuding betwixt the SQ and the RCMP punted my gun back and forth between jurisdictions until I lawyered up from Vancouver. Almost three years later I got it back in my possession. I first had to take it - 'voluntarily' - to get that temp selector block welded in permanently, and the trip holes filled.
Insult one: Collector value went to zero.
Insult two: the mag that went into the grinder in good faith never came out with the rifle. It hadn't been pinned to gov spec. Duh: it was in the hands of the RCMP when the specs were published.
Insult three: now in possession of an Officially Bubba'd former collector piece; now a rather clumsy single shot for lack of a magazine, the rules were changed to forbid range time. Used to shoot 30" groups at 600m at the Mt Bruno PQRA range with the issue iron sights.
I made inquiries to the folks at Armalite. Newly made parts are not compatible with the originals. I had thought to buy a new lower which was merely restricted instead of converted door stop. SOL
This is my personal grievance against the whole registration process. When this crap started in 1992, the AR10 wasn't even on the gov's #### list because there were so few of them. I was in transit between careers at the time and applied (voluntarily - more fool me) to register in Quebec; just before moving to BC. Feuding betwixt the SQ and the RCMP punted my gun back and forth between jurisdictions until I lawyered up from Vancouver. Almost three years later I got it back in my possession. I first had to take it - 'voluntarily' - to get that temp selector block welded in permanently, and the trip holes filled.
Insult one: Collector value went to zero.
Insult two: the mag that went into the grinder in good faith never came out with the rifle. It hadn't been pinned to gov spec. Duh: it was in the hands of the RCMP when the specs were published.
Insult three: now in possession of an Officially Bubba'd former collector piece; now a rather clumsy single shot for lack of a magazine, the rules were changed to forbid range time. Used to shoot 30" groups at 600m at the Mt Bruno PQRA range with the issue iron sights.
I made inquiries to the folks at Armalite. Newly made parts are not compatible with the originals. I had thought to buy a new lower which was merely restricted instead of converted door stop. SOL
For all of those who weren't there when the "new rules" came in, or who mistakenly think "things have never been better" - there are hundreds of different, individual variations on this theme, that happened with all kinds of firearms, all across the country. I got so sick of hearing about stuff like this back in the day, that I withdrew from shooting and sat back with my mouth shut, even going so far as to hide my firearms in the attic. Bureaucrats acted immediately to scoop as many guns as they could before parts of the law were challenged in court, frankly it was disgusting. I didn't know that government employees could move so fast. Any time you hear someone say that the Firearms Act, or gun laws in this country are "fair and reasonable" remember this story. Simply because it's the 'new normal' doesn't make it fair, reasonable, or good.
themarauder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Just north of Toronto, thankfully.
And all to score political points with certain groups and to look good. No best practices. No logic. Just emotional and fundamentalist driven rhetoric. Maddening. Never mind the 1-2 billion it cost in tax money... Has anyone tried to calculate just what this BS costs the economy? I know of a number of stores who failed shortly after the new regs went into place and ton of people who lost their guns (myself among them) and folks like Bross who got to.. sort of... keep their legally owned collector pieces. After hoops and spending tons of money... For nothing. And now they can't even shoot them? Just thinking about it makes me grind my teeth in frustration.
All that being said, awesome thread guys and thank you. This sort of stuff is what makes CGN worth reading.
