Bullet Speed or Heavier bullet for 300 yard shot?

huntingfish said:
As mentioned to antiqueguy (and in another thread), I did lose a moose this year. I was shooting 180gr winchester etips. So, I`m curious as to whether the bullet performed ok or not, as I saw the moose drop like a ton of bricks, but after several seconds, the moose got up and went into the forest (she was 20? or so ft from the treeline, in the open, when I shot it). Never to be seen again, no blood could be found.

I was thinking (alhough I can't confirm this), that maybe the bullet didn`t perform that well and started looking at other options. The only reason I use monolithic bullets (etips) is because they are lead free, never really gave much thought to weight retention and all. Would there be any reason for going with a lead (bonded or whatever) bullet instead?

Thanks for your input guys!

Fish
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placement placement placement. you could shoot a moose in the guts with a .50 bmg and it could take hours to die or you could hit a moose in the heart with a 7.62x39 fmj and it could drop quick. look up moose vitals and make sure you know where to put the bullet that hump can make people think the vitals are higher then they are
 
huntingfish said:
So, I`m curious as to whether the bullet performed ok or not, as I saw the moose drop like a ton of bricks, but after several seconds, the moose got up and went into the forest (she was 20? or so ft from the treeline, in the open, when I shot it). Never to be seen again, no blood could be found.
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Dropping like a ton of bricks is more often than not a sign of a poor hit with large critters like moose and elk. It means a hit near the spine or brain but unless permanent damage is inflicted to either, the results are temporary as you saw. Sometimes even with what appears to be great shot placement, crap happens. I'd write it off to bad luck rather than a bad bullet.
 
antiqueguy said:
yes if the OP was able to place the bullet where it needs to be he already admitted to shooting at a moose and not knowing if he hit it or not
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If it dropped like a ton of bricks....odds are he hit it. Sometimes things just happen. I'm sure you've hunted long enough to have seen it first hand.
 
Strange things do happen. One of my dad's buddys shot a moose through the lungs at about 75 yards with a 303.

It went down, got up and ran 100 yards, turned around and ran back and died in nearly the exact spot it was shot. Bizarre.
 
165 grain > every other bullet in a 3006.

likely your rifle is a 1/10 twist barrel, meaning a 165 should be more accurate. I took a moose 2 years ago with a165gr barnes tsx... the guys back at camp accused me of shooting it with a 50cal the exit wound was so big. it has more power than you will need for a moose. they are flesh and blood not armored vehicles.
 
antiqueguy said:
idk why you would try to take a shot past 100 yards on game unless you know it will work. my ideology is if you cant hit a 2" target reliably at a set distance then don't try to take that shot. go get some ammo of different types brands and weights test them to see what shoots best in your rifle

for .30-06 id stick with a 100 yard max and a 180gr bullet if you can't get a moose within 100 yards or don't have the patients to let the game get close stay out of the woods im pretty sure there's another thread made by you where I've said pretty much the same thing
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If 100yds is your comfort range for making a shot thats fine but why tell others to stay out of the woods if they want to learn something different?

I have taken game at the ranges the op talks about with a factory rifle and factory ammo, it is all about doing your part as the shooter as long as you don't have junky equipment.
 
07blackwater said:
Strange things do happen. One of my dad's buddys shot a moose through the lungs at about 75 yards with a 303.

It went down, got up and ran 100 yards, turned around and ran back and died in nearly the exact spot it was shot. Bizarre.
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2 years ago I had a similar thing happen, shot a deer, it ran in to the woods so I sat and waited, couple minutes later it comes running back out to almost where it was standing for the shot and did a full somersault dropping dead.
 
antiqueguy said:
I've been hunting since I could get my apprentice license I have never lost a single deer yet
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I'm not really certain what that means but it sounds like you've been blessed with good fortune.....hunt long enough and your day will come......unfortunately.
 
your limits are just that, YOURS. No need to impose those on other hunters

Originally Posted by antiqueguy
idk why you would try to take a shot past 100 yards on game unless you know it will work.

for .30-06 id stick with a 100 yard max and a 180gr bullet if you can't get a moose within 100 yards or don't have the patients to let the game get close stay out of the woods
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antiqueguy said:
nope I know my limits and let the game animal get inside those limits and I don't take iffy shots
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No doubt you do.....but apparently you haven't met Murphy yet. I hope you don't but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to say you won't. I've seen it happen to many a very good hunter.
 
antiqueguy said:
yes if the OP was able to place the bullet where it needs to be he already admitted to shooting at a moose and not knowing if he hit it or not
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Actually, I specifically said the moose "dropped like a ton of bricks", not sure how this applies to your "if he hit it or not" situation.

The moose was 306m away (gps measured) and at that distance, it wasn't surprised by a loud BOOM which I might of confused by by the fact that she dropped to the ground. Because the sound would of taken nearly a full second to reach it.
 
huntingfish said:
As mentioned to antiqueguy (and in another thread), I did lose a moose this year. I was shooting 180gr winchester etips. So, I`m curious as to whether the bullet performed ok or not, as I saw the moose drop like a ton of bricks, but after several seconds, the moose got up and went into the forest (she was 20? or so ft from the treeline, in the open, when I shot it). Never to be seen again, no blood could be found.

I was thinking (alhough I can't confirm this), that maybe the bullet didn`t perform that well and started looking at other options. The only reason I use monolithic bullets (etips) is because they are lead free, never really gave much thought to weight retention and all. Would there be any reason for going with a lead (bonded or whatever) bullet instead?

Thanks for your input guys!

Fish
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Emphasis mine.

I'd say your placement was high and you 'hump shot' the moose. The 'knocked down then get up and run away' experience is common with moose where they are hit and get knocked unconscious by the transfer of energy but the bullet doesn't hit anything vital so when they wake up they run away with a nasty wound. Take a look at the bone structure and organ placement near the spine of your next dead moose to clarify.
I'd stick with what you are shooting as it should perform fine. Keep practicing at the ranges you hunt, keep hunting at the ranges you practice and don't start double guessing yourself once you have established methods.
Good luck!
 
huntingfish said:
As mentioned to antiqueguy (and in another thread), I did lose a moose this year. I was shooting 180gr winchester etips. So, I`m curious as to whether the bullet performed ok or not, as I saw the moose drop like a ton of bricks, but after several seconds, the moose got up and went into the forest (she was 20? or so ft from the treeline, in the open, when I shot it). Never to be seen again, no blood could be found.

I was thinking (alhough I can't confirm this), that maybe the bullet didn`t perform that well and started looking at other options. The only reason I use monolithic bullets (etips) is because they are lead free, never really gave much thought to weight retention and all. Would there be any reason for going with a lead (bonded or whatever) bullet instead?

Thanks for your input guys!

Fish
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I had the same thing happen using a 375 H&H 250gr Sierra bullet. I blame shot placement not bullet performance.
 
If I may curve a bit the subject of the thread and ask: Would you think a 180gr etip bullet @306m would of went through a moose completely assuming it didn't it any bones?

I was lucky enough to see, shoot and pack-in-freezer another moose during my trip. The shot was a perfect shot to the lungs. Shot off-hand at 80 yards more or less. It did hit a rib on the way in though, but it did exit on the other side. I was wondering if one should expect their bullets to go through at long ranges?

Fish
 
huntingfish said:
If I may curve a bit the subject of the thread and ask: Would you think a 180gr etip bullet @306m would of went through a moose completely assuming it didn't it any bones?

I was lucky enough to see, shoot and pack-in-freezer another moose during my trip. The shot was a perfect shot to the lungs. Shot off-hand at 80 yards more or less. It did hit a rib on the way in though, but it did exit on the other side. I was wondering if one should expect their bullets to go through at long ranges?

Fish
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I'd say it's more common for mono-metals to pass through than remain in the animal but there is certainly no hard and fast rule.
 
huntingfish said:
As mentioned to antiqueguy (and in another thread), I did lose a moose this year. I was shooting 180gr winchester etips. So, I`m curious as to whether the bullet performed ok or not, as I saw the moose drop like a ton of bricks, but after several seconds, the moose got up and went into the forest (she was 20? or so ft from the treeline, in the open, when I shot it). Never to be seen again, no blood could be found.
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There is a spot on game that the Germans call Hole Schutze or something like that. The placement is below the spine, but above the lung. The proximity of the shot to the spine will often make the animal drop. It may then quite quickly recover. Also shots to the neck can have the same effect. Here is an example of the latter:



By the way, imo there is nothing more reliable than the good old 180gr Nosler Partition. It is just about perfect for the .30-06 and will do very well at the ranges you mention.
 
A 30-06 will knock down just about anything with a decently placed shot at that range. What I would suggest is find a place where you can try shooting a 300 yard target and see how your rifle groups with what you would plan to use for a 20 yard shot. There really is no reason to bring a ####mix of bullets. It's nice to practice for the worst shot might be willing to take and hope for the best. The real world is usually somewhere in the middle.
 
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