9mm low powder loads?

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bigi

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I reload using at this time 124gr BDX jacketed using 3.8 gr Titegroup with 1.10 oal. Anyone has any experience with even lighter loads for practice for my wife. Yes we are using CZ Shadows so recoil is low, but since I reload, why not less? How much less? Thanks
 
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My CZ 85 combat cycles 3.0 grains of winchester 231 with a 124 grain tip, and another guy at the range shoots 148 grain tips with 2.7 grains of 231. (both cast tips)
 
I have used VV-340 to produce an interesting load. The bullets were an odd batch of 124gr plated truncated, that the proprietor had lying around, and I've not seen them since. Anyhow, much to my surprise, they shot very well, and super softly ahead of 4.5gr of powder if memory serves. I found the load in the Lee Manual.
 
It's not so much the load but the ability of the gun to cycle fully. As you work your way down in power watch the ejected brass. When it's only being thrown out about a foot from the gun you know you are about as low a power as you want to go. Even at that point you may well find that you run into stovepipes more frequently.

The only way to go with lower power ammo than that is to switch to a lighter recoil spring. But then you won't want to mix in regular power ammo as the lower power recoil spring will let the slide hammer the frame at the rear travel limit too harshly.

When I was playing around with IPSC loading I did find that 147gn ammo kept the recoil energy up to cycle the gun but the felt recoil to the shooter softened a lot. The only thing was that that heavy slow bullets hit higher on the target so the sights will be off as you lower the power factor with lighter loads.
 
That is a low charge. I currently use 3.3-3.4 gr W231 125 gr LRN for my CZ 85C. Have you checked the PF for this load? Low charge means low recoil and good enough for bullseye shooting, but might not be enough if you are shooting IPSC.

Colt .45 said:
My CZ 85 combat cycles 3.0 grains of winchester 231 with a 124 grain tip, and another guy at the range shoots 148 grain tips with 2.7 grains of 231. (both cast tips)
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So if I was to go down to say 3.5-3.6 gr does that effect the oal since there would be more space inside the brass to build up pressure? Thanks
 
Keep in mind that low charge weights of fast burning powder can get a little freaky. The guy shooting the 38 special load (148 over 2.7 W231 which is light even for a PPC target load) in a 9mm case could easily experience a detonation. Be very careful in going low with these powders, that's why there are starting loads in manuals.
 
ambishooter said:
That is a low charge. I currently use 3.3-3.4 gr W231 125 gr LRN for my CZ 85C. Have you checked the PF for this load? Low charge means low recoil and good enough for bullseye shooting, but might not be enough if you are shooting IPSC.
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I doubt it makes PF. My 85C just manages to cycle with 3.4gr W231 using a 124gr Berrys Plated RN at 1.125". My old Glock and my wife's M&P won't cycle this load reliably and the 85C wouldn't lock back 100% of the time. With a 124gr lead RN and a MUCH shorter OAL the 3.4gr load was reliable for cycling in the CZ but fed poorly. It will run 100% with 3.7gr and 124gr plated but the Glock and M&P will not. With 4gr they will. With 4.3gr W231 with the same Berry's bullet and OAL I average 1015fps so am JUST sneaking into Minor PF. On a cold day I might not make it at all. I would be surprised if any load under 4gr comes anywhere close to 125PF.

3.7 gr W231 is mild and will likely give you good reliability. I see no point in loading at so low pressure that function is compromised.
 
kayaker1 said:
I doubt it makes PF. My 85C just manages to cycle with 3.4gr W231 using a 124gr Berrys Plated RN at 1.125". My old Glock and my wife's M&P won't cycle this load reliably and the 85C wouldn't lock back 100% of the time. With a 124gr lead RN and a MUCH shorter OAL the 3.4gr load was reliable for cycling in the CZ but fed poorly. It will run 100% with 3.7gr and 124gr plated but the Glock and M&P will not. With 4gr they will. With 4.3gr W231 with the same Berry's bullet and OAL I average 1015fps so am JUST sneaking into Minor PF. On a cold day I might not make it at all. I would be surprised if any load under 4gr comes anywhere close to 125PF.

3.7 gr W231 is mild and will likely give you good reliability. I see no point in loading at so low pressure that function is compromised.
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So what was your OAL for the light load?
 
Clays is a very very soft shooting powder. It's something you could experiment with. I find the lowest powder load that would cycle my Glock 17 was about 2.9 gr (basically no recoil), but the grouping was appalling at that level. 3.6 gr with 125 gr JHP-C zero bullet is my favorite load, very precise and only mild recoil. Can't remember the COAL off the top of my head, but it was very close to what's in the Lyman reloading manual for this powder and a 124-125gr pill.
 
Just tried Clays(have 4 lbs) and settled on 3.4gr for a nice soft practice load and 3.6gr for matches at OAL of 1.10+ with FMJ RN 124gr CamPro. I would say its better than Titegroup.
 
I use Titegroup for 9mm. I made a test of 3.1, 3.3, 3.5 and 3.8 gr for all the pistols. One preferred 3.1, (a Norc 1911), several preferred 3.3 (including 2 CZs) and most preferred 3.5.

Make 10 of each and try them. Make a note of at what level the slide cycles 100% and make a note of what gets best accuracy.
 
I have used 3.4 gr. of Promo (weight for weight the same as Red Dot) over a 125 gr. cast RN bullet and that combo has functioned my 9mm Kimber Stainless Target, Glock 17, Beretta 92, Sig 226 and HK USP with no problems whatsoever. And because it is a flake powder it fills a good portion of the case. Accuracy is very good also (averaged 469/480 in PPC Service Pistol with the Kimber and 65 year old eyes).
 
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GQBalla said:
What's the benefits of having a lower charge for practice and higher charge for match?


What PF do you make with this?
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When we(my wife & me) shoot 1000+ a month in practice, makes it easier on the guns and us plus a little cheaper over a year worth of ammo. Just got my chrony so will measure soon. Till then the higher load is for those metal poppers at the matches.
 
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