thatguydion
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awesome
what's good for scent elimination
- Thread starter thatguydion
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Yuck....
I don't tend to go crazy with scent control, but I do wash my clothes religiously in Buck Expert unscented soap before the season opener, actually for that matter they are drying on hangers in the washroom as I type this.
Dimitri
Dimitri
Scent control is the PRIMARY concern in big game hunting (IMO)... But this doesn't mean using products or cover scents... The ONLY certain way of avoiding scent detection is to stay down wind. Having said that I do take measures to "up the margin" when hunting (I am a bowhunter and this does make scent control More critical)... I wash my clothes in a natural "scent-free" soap, then I place them in a large tupperware bin with boughs from indiginous foliage, where we hunt this means "cedar" for deer and "balsam" for moose. I bath with a scent-free soap and use a scent-free deoderant. In the bush, I wear a Scent Killer base layer, and knee high rubber boots, when scouting and hunting, I avoid touching brush and trees... I do minimal if any trimmimg and don't touch the clippings... I move my stand location every half day, hunting from a different location every morning and evening... I "run and gun" midday, setting up on the ground rattling and/or calling... Moving into the wind as I go. And even so, I still get busted more than I would like... Its just the nature of the sport... The animals live there 24/7/365, they have an uncanny ability to sense danger.
Man, some people are willing to waste time and money on superstitious nonsense.
Most authorities believe deer can smell with about the same ability as dogs. We know lots about the olfactory powers of dogs, because we live with them and use that power whenever we can. Dogs have found drugs inside plastic bags inside sacks of coffee. Dogs are being used to detect cancer and predict epileptic seizures by smell. Bloodhounds have followed trails of people AFTER they got into a car and drove off. Do you really think that a nose like that can be fooled by some pine scent or some cow sh*t on your boots?
If you think that the fact YOU can't smell something means the deer can't, you are making a big mistake. If you think your special carbon impregnated suit will prevent farts from smelling, or your breath from stinking, or your armpit smells from escaping, you are just being silly. Nothing can prevent a deer's nose from detecting you if (a) it is down wind and (b) it is paying attention to its nose (which it almost always is). Deer and dogs live in a world of smell that we can't even imagine. Next time you see a buck scrape, go up and try to smell the hanging branch that always hangs over a scrape and which bucks mark with the scent glands near their eyes. You won't smell a thing, but it is a HUGE signpost to a deer. They can tell exactly who made the scrape from that scent alone, and you will smell nothing.
The only scent control that works is controlling where it goes. Your scent will go down wind no matter what crap you have smeared on yourself, or how much time your clothes have hung outside, or how much skunk stink you are willing to sit in all day. Stop buying (literally and metaphorically) that garbage.
Attractants are another story, and I believe you can get deer to approach the proper scents because they do that all the time in their daily lives, but there is no product or practice that can prevent human odor from going where the wind takes it.
Most authorities believe deer can smell with about the same ability as dogs. We know lots about the olfactory powers of dogs, because we live with them and use that power whenever we can. Dogs have found drugs inside plastic bags inside sacks of coffee. Dogs are being used to detect cancer and predict epileptic seizures by smell. Bloodhounds have followed trails of people AFTER they got into a car and drove off. Do you really think that a nose like that can be fooled by some pine scent or some cow sh*t on your boots?
If you think that the fact YOU can't smell something means the deer can't, you are making a big mistake. If you think your special carbon impregnated suit will prevent farts from smelling, or your breath from stinking, or your armpit smells from escaping, you are just being silly. Nothing can prevent a deer's nose from detecting you if (a) it is down wind and (b) it is paying attention to its nose (which it almost always is). Deer and dogs live in a world of smell that we can't even imagine. Next time you see a buck scrape, go up and try to smell the hanging branch that always hangs over a scrape and which bucks mark with the scent glands near their eyes. You won't smell a thing, but it is a HUGE signpost to a deer. They can tell exactly who made the scrape from that scent alone, and you will smell nothing.
The only scent control that works is controlling where it goes. Your scent will go down wind no matter what crap you have smeared on yourself, or how much time your clothes have hung outside, or how much skunk stink you are willing to sit in all day. Stop buying (literally and metaphorically) that garbage.
Attractants are another story, and I believe you can get deer to approach the proper scents because they do that all the time in their daily lives, but there is no product or practice that can prevent human odor from going where the wind takes it.
Well you are partially correct... deer can smell you no matter what you do when they are directly downwind... have you ever heard the term "scent cone???" There has been extensive study in the area of the olfactory abilities of whitetail deer... a person who takes NO scent suppression measures may have a 30 degree scent cone... meaning that their scent disperses over a 30 degree cone as it drifts away downwind, the scent cone can be reduced by taking suppression measures... which is why I commented on "increasing the margin" which is all it does... in addition it has been proven that deer will get closer to an upwind danger that has been "scent supressed" as opposed to no efforts made. I feel that the small margins are worth the effort... as I said before, in spite of everything I still get busted... but I can also point to certain bucks that I doubt that I ever would have taken if I had not been diligent with scent control... but to each their own. I will continue to take pains (and it is a pain) to supress my scent to the best of my ability... the biggest factor of which is not leaving scent behind in the areas that I am scouting and hunting... which includes no gas or contaminants on my boots, no touching limbs or the ground as I move through the woods and leaving the smallest scent footprint possible in the woods.
Your "scent cone" is determined completely by the drifting of air currents down wind, not by the strength of the scent. Ask any trainer of tracking dogs, or try attending a field trial for retrievers. The spread of the scent down wind may be larger if the wind is "swirling" for any reason (just currents or maybe trees and bushes) or it may be quite small if the wind is slight and consistent. I have no idea who "proved" that a scent cone is smaller if you stink less, or deer "get closer to an upwind danger that has been 'scent suppressed'". Maybe some scent producing company has such "data", but the experiences of dog trainers disproves that theory. Most tracking hounds can decide which way a person was travelling on a given scent trail if they cross it a right angles initially, by checking only a few feet in either direction. The "difference" direction of travel makes is obvious to them even many hours after the human passed by. MANY HOURS! If you think a deer is fooled as you sit there a bit less stinky because you don't have gas on your boots, go ahead and spend your money.
You don't have to touch limbs either to leave a trail a dog can follow. Bloodhounds have trailed humans over water. and are often observed to trail the subject down wind of the actual path by several feet. Do some research about what tracking and searching dogs can do. Deer can do the same stuff. Your efforts are not only a "pain", but they are useless too.
Like most superstitions, people will take anecdotal "evidence" from small samples, and then simply repeat a behavior because they think they are getting random reinforcement. Every casino depends on that gullibility. So do "scent blocking" product manufacturers.
Mud, the black stuff; pine of spruce needles rubbed between your hands, so the needles crush/break - same with leaves from deciduous trees... that's the sort of stuff I do. But that's more so that my hands odor is reduced a bit. Nothing beats having the wind in your face.
I have found either seeing you or smelling you will stop them in their tracks... Difference being seeing you will cause them to start sniffing, likcing the air and stomping and trying to understand... Smelling you on a bad day makes them turn tail and raise flag...
Well... There is too much here to repond to... So briefly, I am not basing my opinions solely on the "small sample" of my own experience, but on extensive research, by "biologists" NOT scent manufacuring companies. With regard to wind movement, you have not only to consider wind direction but also wind thermals... In general the warming morning air causes air movement to "rise" often carrying scent well over incoming game... This often the case when you hear a hunter say "He came in straight downwind and didn't smell me!" Conversely, the cooling evening air is often falling and scent can hit the ground level just feet away from the base of a tree with the hunter perched smugly 20 feet up, thinking nothing can smell him. Topography also dictates wind thermals... I hunt one remote location where the wind blows up through a saddle in a ridge 99% of the time regardless of which way the general wind direction is coming from... I also have studied and worked in the field of wildlife biology. Also, as chance would have it, I own, train, trial and hunt with retrievers, both labs and springers... I have dozens of amazing stories of when my dogs clearly responded to slight and distant scents (too much for this thread)... So, in short, I thoroughly disagree with you (and that's ok)... 40+ years of bowhunting biggame and working in wildlife biology has convinced me of the worth of making my "best efforts" in the scent supression arena... Its not fool proof, but I believe that it is worth the effort.
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Hoytcanon, everything you say about wind and air movement is absolutely true. It does not change the fact that deer will smell you if those capricious currents take your scent to them, even if it is "slight and distant", no matter how much you try to mask or minimize your scent. Your dogs are likely in agreement with that idea. Any animal (dog, deer, whatever) that can trail another animal many hours after it passes, with all the "masking" and suppressing of that trail that will have occurred in the astonishing array of normal environmental odors drifting in the wind, will not be fooled.
OK... So one brief story. I was moose hunting, called in a bull right at dark, but knew it would be past legal light before he came in... He had a cow with him so I thought there was a chance they would stick around and "dance" all night... So I got in my canoe a paddled quietly away... An hour before first light, I was back... Beached the canoe, there was a heavy frost on the long grass... In the dark, I ended up 15 feet offside of my planned route in to the stand. An hour later, at first light, I commenced calling... There was an answering grunt came from the exact area where I had put them to bed... And they made their way in quickly... I sweet talked him good, and he was not really interested in the cow anymore... As he came in, the bull hit my scent trail, where I had walked in an hour an a half earlier and stopped dead. Because I had gotten off line, he was behind a large spruce 20 feet way and I had no shot (archery)... That bull stood there for over an hour... Sniffing scenting the grass and air. I had been wearing hip waders, which I had scrubbed with sand from the river... The cow wandered all over for that hour, bawling and making "god-aweful" very unmoose-like sounds... She circled upwind, downwind and crosswind (rising thermals)... For that whole hour neiither the bull or I shifted our feet. Finally the bull crossed my scent line and in two steps he was in the clear... But it was cold, and I had been frozen in place for an hour... When I tried to draw my bow, I was so cramped up, I couldn't get it back! The bull began to move forward, I tried to draw again and again... NO LUCK. Finally just as the bull was about to disappear into the bush, I made a last herculean effort and reefed the bow back, settled into my form and placed an arrow behind his shoulder... He rewarded my effort by dropping five feet from the shore...
So why tell you this story... Because it illustrates the "margin" concept I was talking about... NO, you will not fool every animal, in fact even with all due diligence, you will loose more often than not... Vastly so. And "scent supression" efforts are NOT a replacement for solid hunting tactics and practices (as some would have us believe, especially Scent Product companies)... But I KNOW, that if I had walked in that morning wearing smoke covered wool pants and touched the grass (rather than walked with my hands and bow over my head as I did, because I anticipated the bull would walk through that bottleneck)... I would never have taken that bull... And that is all I am talking about... Making the effort to up the odds... Even to a small degree.
Sorry, but you just can't know that. It's absurd to argue you can. Anyone who hunts enough will have LOTS of stories about animals that they killed that prove nothing except that you just never know what will happen when you're hunting. Do it all "right" and get skunked; do it all "wrong" and a moose will walk into your noon campfire and stand around till someone loads a gun. LOTS of stories that really prove nothing. Although I know a couple of hunters who will insist a campfire will actually attract a moose, and are always ready for it to happen again.
Anecdotal evidence that ignores vast numbers of variables in the "experiment", is too small a sample, and draws non sequitur conclusions. NOT good science for a science guy. It's right up there with the little dolls some old ladies line up above their bingo cards. They help to a small degree too.
There is know... and there is "know." Many scientists are assured of realities and outcomes without empirical proof... we all take for granted scientific realities from the moment we get out of bed in the morning and these realities are understood by experience NOT scientific data presented to us and agreed upon... I work in statistical analysis on a daily basis... I can sit here and expound and converse at length about sample sizes and controllable and uncontrollable variables etc... etc... but to be frank... it was not me who averred that I would not have taken that bull... it was you... what happened couldn't happen or so it sounded from your previous argument... those moose were all around me for a solid hour (and moose have pretty good snozzles, you will likely agree)... that bull stopped dead on my trail... he clearly caught some small whiff of my scent... and tried for an hour to detect further danger... but in the end, it was the end.
So how about you and I disagree on some points, agree on others and go about our merry way? It is unlikely we will change each others minds. Take care brother.
