Bullet Speed or Heavier bullet for 300 yard shot?

Exit wound from a 168 grain Barnes TSX launched @ 2900 fps M.V. out of a 30-06. The Mule deer was ~175 yards (2500 fps impact velocity) and as you can see the "mono-metal" bullet opened fully. On the tougher hide of a moose I would not question perfect performance down to the 1800 fps Barnes lists as a minimum for reliable expansion which, from a 30-06, is about 600 yards..


126168TSX_exit3.JPG
 
Here is another "mono-metal" bullet exit wound. The bullet was a 210 grain TTSX launched at 2800 fps out of my 338-06. The distance was over 200 yards and again the bullet expanded perfectly.

I think the problem with mono-metals not expanding is more related to poor shots rather than bullet performance.

210_TTSX_Exit.jpg
 
guido said:
did you recover the bullet?
Click to expand...


No, we have never had a Triple Shock stay in an animal after my daughter and I shooting a couple of bear, a half-dozen deer and a moose with them.

I have also shot a couple of deer and a large wolf using the 168 grain E-Tip ot of my 300 WSM. The deer I didn't expect to recover the bullets but the wolf surprised me. I shot him at about 30 feet (a story in itself) and hit him square in the chest. The bullet passed through the length of the big male and blew out next to his arsehole leaving a Loonie-sized exit in the hide.
 
huntingfish said:
Sorry for the poor picture quality.

Fish
Click to expand...

Don't worry about that but I do think that you and I may have had the same shooting teacher. Did you notice the exit on your moose and the exit on mine are in almost exactly the same place? :cool:

Like I have said before shot placement is paramount. LoL :D
 
1899 said:
There is a spot on game that the Germans call Hole Schutze or something like that. The placement is below the spine, but above the lung. The proximity of the shot to the spine will often make the animal drop. It may then quite quickly recover. Also shots to the neck can have the same effect.
Click to expand...

I shot a buck in this fashion two seasons back. He dropped and rolled almost completely over at the shot. I racked a second round when he got back up on his front feet and started dragging himself forward. I was waiting for a pause for the follow up shot when he kicked his back legs up and vanished over a fence. We tracked for a mile before we lost the blood trail. The culprit: a scope knocked slightly out of zero. It was shooting a couple inches high and to the right. Still not sure what happened, I don't recall hitting it on anything or having any spills after sighting in. And the scope/rifle combo hasn't failed before or since. A damn terrible shame.
 
sheephunter said:
No doubt you do.....but apparently you haven't met Murphy yet. I hope you don't but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to say you won't. I've seen it happen to many a very good hunter.
Click to expand...

Very true, even the best and most careful hunter will have a time when something goes wrong. It may not be the hunters fault as it is usually something unforeseen, but it will happen if you hunt long enough. To say it will never happen to you is nothing but naive and or arrogance. Statements like that just prove inexperience.
 
hawk-i said:
More than likely with the moose that got up and walked away, it was poor bullet placement more than bullet performance.....even any old cup and core bullet is enough to kill a moose if hit in the lungs.
You read these stories on the internet a lot....I shot a "whatever" and it just walked away....blah, blah blah, the bullet I used was crap and I will never use that product again....when the real story should be I made a lousy shot and I really need to practice a lot more before I go hunting again!!!
Click to expand...

This right here!^^

Use the bullet that shoots best outta your gun, and practice lots. If the good bullets are too expensive to shoot a bunch at the range, buy a bunch of cheap ones and shoot them lots, then tune for the 'good' ones.

Further, if it still has legs pointing down, shoot it again.

Had a hunting partner that took a single shot at a moose, under a 100 yards, and then watched it walk into the bush. When asked how many rounds he had in his mag, he checked and told us he had 5. He got asked that question about nine or ten times a day, for the next 9 days that it took us to get hooked up on a moose. And all the next year. And every day at camp the following year.
He shot the bull that next year, sounded like a firefight going on. Moose died right there, and his first words on the radio were "None left in the mag!"

Placement kills game.

Cheers
Trev
 
Trev, I agree with you on that and it's always my strategy as well: As long as the moose is not belly up, keep firing. Moose are particularly persistent animals and will get up and can cover a lot of ground if on the adrenaline.
 
I'm in the 'make one shot count' camp. I'll finish a lung shot moose in the head but unloading the mag?

Last year I heard a guy with a semi auto unload on a calf moose. He dumped two mags into it.

Guys that hunt a lot will know what I mean when i say you can hear the SMACK when a bullet hits home. I heard bang, bang, smack, bang, smack.......reload.....bang, smack, smack, bang, bang.

Later on I went to where he had shot it and I could tell by the cases and the blood it was no more than 75-80 yards. That moose must have been a mess.

I say practice is more important. Be confident in your shooting and the rest will follow.
 
Any .30 cal big game bullet will be fine in a 30-06 at 300 yards.

A moose that falls right over and gets up and leaves was likely hit in the shoulder.

Premium bullets don't make up for bad shot placement. I've shot lots of moose with most everything from .270 win to .375 H&H using cup and core and premium bullets and I don't spend money on premium bullets any more.

It IS good that the OP is looking for advice on what might have gone wrong, but honestly, it's pretty clear to me that this was a pulled shot, and shot placement was the issue, not the bullet.
 
OP you did a couple of things wrong, first you should have reloaded and watched to see if the moose regained it's feet and then thumped it again, cardinal rule IMHO. Mono metal bullets not necessarily best choice in an '06, I prefer Partitions in sub 3000 fps cartridges as they cover all bases at all ranges. Never trust an animal that drops instantly on the shot, many people have been killed walking up to these same "dead" animals unprepared, even lowly deer have been known to kill people when shot "instantly dead" like this, not to mention buffalo, lion or elephant.
Were you well practiced for a 300 mtr shot? Knowing your rifle and load is far more important than whether it's a 165 or 180 gn bullet, especially in an '06.
As sheep said, if you hunt long enough you will eventually lose an animal it's just reality and the law of averages, sh!t happens. I personally don't subscibe to the "one shot should be all that's required" creedo, Africa taught me to swallow my "pride of marksmanship" and keep shooting till it's down, after all, if you can only hit it once, how much "pride of marksmanship" is there, really?
 
07blackwater said:
I guess everyone's standard of marksmanship is something they personally decide on.
Click to expand...

Not too sure of the implications of this statement, and I don't have to defend my "standards of marksmanship" to anyone, given my past achievements, both in competition and in the hunting fields of most of the world. However there are any number of things that can affect bullets in the field, unseen twigs and blades of grass, gusts and swirls of wind, inaccurate range estimation and/or rangefinders, 40 degree temp differences from testing to hunting, extreme altitude changes and any other factors that can and do affect your bullet after it leaves the muzzle. Field hunting shots at ranges approaching and exceeding 300 mtrs are exponentially more difficult than at the range, off bags, at certain defined distances. To not follow up with subsequent shots if the opportunity presents is irresponsible, in my opinion, regardless of how sure you think you are of the shot. I'm fairly certain that most if not all TRULY experienced hunters agree with me, your first responsibility is to the animal and as clean and quick a kill as is possible, not to your arrogant self and the advancement of your 1 shot kill string. Regardless of how sure I am of my shot, if the opportunity presents itself I'll always hit it again, because you just never know.........................I've made the same mistake myself several times and kicked my own a$$ over it, don't recall losing any because of it but have made some long days out of what should have been short days, before learning the value of follow up shots when possible. It is also the hard and fast rule when hunting dangerous game, so if you don't want your PH shooting your animals, you'd best keep shooting till it quits twitching as they have no use for arrogance and 1 shot kill strings when the other side of the coin usually means someone is going to get maimed or killed. Even my perfect frontal brain shot on my elephant was followed by 2 quick ones into the chest, because you can't know it's a perfect shot until you have the animal dead to inspect. Does it make me any less of a hunter or shot or sportsman 'cause I gave 2 more in the chest to be sure?
 
sheephunter said:
Dropping like a ton of bricks is more often than not a sign of a poor hit with large critters like moose and elk. It means a hit near the spine or brain but unless permanent damage is inflicted to either, the results are temporary as you saw. Sometimes even with what appears to be great shot placement, crap happens. I'd write it off to bad luck rather than a bad bullet.
Click to expand...

X2

Possibly hit one of those long vertebrae bones that stick up from a moose hump area.
 
c-fbmi said:
OP you did a couple of things wrong, first you should have reloaded and watched to see if the moose regained it's feet and then thumped it again, cardinal rule IMHO. Mono metal bullets not necessarily best choice in an '06, I prefer Partitions in sub 3000 fps cartridges as they cover all bases at all ranges. Never trust an animal that drops instantly on the shot, many people have been killed walking up to these same "dead" animals unprepared, even lowly deer have been known to kill people when shot "instantly dead" like this, not to mention buffalo, lion or elephant.
Were you well practiced for a 300 mtr shot? Knowing your rifle and load is far more important than whether it's a 165 or 180 gn bullet, especially in an '06.
As sheep said, if you hunt long enough you will eventually lose an animal it's just reality and the law of averages, sh!t happens. I personally don't subscibe to the "one shot should be all that's required" creedo, Africa taught me to swallow my "pride of marksmanship" and keep shooting till it's down, after all, if you can only hit it once, how much "pride of marksmanship" is there, really?
Click to expand...

- Not like I didn't try to put a second round into it. The terrain is a logged area that is "wavy" (1-2m high hills that are perpendicular to me). When I had a clear shot, she was a bit higher than before, but when I hit her, she dropped and I couldn't see her again. By the time I spoted her, she was getting up and had but a few steps to take to be in the woods. I may have hit the long vertebraes bones or something else and only temporarily knock the wind out of her for a couple of seconds...we'll never know.
- I'd rather not shoot lead bullets if I can, that's why I'm using lead-free bullets (probably the only reason actually).
- 300m was a very long shot for me, I am planning to do a plywood cutout of a moose silouette and practicing a lot more next year at that range.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom