The Kriss Vector: thoughts, pictures & observations (range report added on post 26)

Keltec Sub-2000 is every bit as good, at a fraction of the price.

I own a Sub-2000 and I used to own a Vector, the Sub-2000 is nowhere near the quality or reliability of the Vector. Not even close.
I like both and even though I sold the Vector and kept the Sub-2000 I don't think the Sub-2000 is anywhere near as good. I only sold the Vector because it was worth a lot more and I decided that it didn't do anything that something else in my collection couldn't do. It was just a neat carbine with an innovative action but didn't get used enough to justify. I sold it to finance my PWS AR and don't regret it.
 
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I saw a video on you tube where the receiver cracked after firing some ordinary .45 following a very weird plume of smoke and explosion.
So that was it for me!

So your going to write off a firearm because of one youtube video? I really doubt those were factory loads, to me that acted like a bad handload, ejection was erratic and short (mine chucked them all into a pile 10-15 feet to 2:00)
The first guy shouldn't have even been allowed to hold a firearm, total idiot that couldn't even figure out that the gun needed to be racked after it was cleared and the mag re-inserted.
The other guy didn't even think to check the firearm after a bad round went through and blew the mag out and caused that smoke cloud.

He said it is a common problem with the gun but I've never heard of it before and I did a lot of searching for info before I bought mine.

I think you would be pretty safe buying one especially considering how little damage there was after the bad load and that it kept firing. Even if something like that were to happen warranty would replace it.
 
Hummm -

Well I got the same version - and it's pretty cool - both in design and function.

I could only suppose that for the guys who have to break into rooms filled with the criminal element, this little firearm (smaller than most) would certainly provide the firepower needed (more rounds per minute than most) and the punch (.45 cal, no really .45 call!!) to get the job done.

All I'm saying is if you're gonna compare things, let make it apples to apples - and I'm not sure what you're gonna compare this beauty with.

Just my two cents of course - Abby
 
Ive owned 3 of the NR versions and shot thousands of rounds through them... mostly "hot" norinco junk. Not one of them gave me even a second of trouble and would run VERY dirty if they were forced to. I agree the NR version looks weird... but anyone who says the ergos are crap is nuts. The Vector FEELS amazing to hold and to shoot. Its a gun designed from the ground up to be compact and fast... and it is. Mine were all relatively accurate out to 100 yards. At 50 they were actually quite good.

Anyone who says a JR carbine or Sub2000 is anywhere NEAR as good as the kriss... well they have clearly not spent much time with them. The kriss is in a different league. The only complaint I have is that while it doesnt have much muzzle rise at all and recoil is relatively non existent, the recoil simply FEELS strange. Its short and snappy, the gun does more shaking than it does recoiling. I didnt like that. Everything else about the gun I absolutely loved.

For anyone who agrees that the NR version looks weird, you can always try this setup:


 
Had a chance to take mine out for a brief shakedown late this afternoon.

IMG_0662_zps541804ca.jpg


It was close to dark so I only had time for 50 rounds of 230 gr FMJ Blazer Brass and UMC. The impending darkness made it easy to pick up muzzle flash--here's a screen grab from the video below:

muzzleflash_zps8e8cec2a.jpg


I was really impressed with the near total lack of muzzle flip. There's a bit of a rearward push but I was really surprised at how non-existent the recoil is.

Accuracy was pretty good too--here's 15m standing (each square is 1"):
IMG_0663_zps56118d7a.jpg


And 25m standing:
IMG_0666_zpse0e9ff56.jpg


And even though it was getting dark I tried prone at 50m....it looked a long way away!
IMG_0669_zpsc97439c5.jpg


but I was pleased with the results (there are even two rounds through one hole)
IMG_0668_zps66699ed3.jpg



I'm really happy how it performed--with better lighting conditions and a bit more familiarity I think I could do better.

November 2017 Edit: I didn't have a Youtube channel when I first wrote this post—here's a video of my second Vector in action a couple of years ago:

[youtube]YmgnmQjZcdA[/youtube]
 
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I owned the NR Kriss and sold it. Please don't get me wrong that it is a fun gun to shoot. For sure you will draw a lot attention at the range. As my opinion, I just don't like the looks of the NR version. The changing handle is too stiff to rack. Fit and finish wasn't that great for the price. I can see the big grip between the the front upper and lower. The folding stock isn't lock tie when it folded.

It is a kind of waste for the semi only. I believe it meant to have select fire.
 
Looks like it would be a great entry weapon (in full auto). I've handled the short one, and despite how it looks (lots of square, and no curves) it actually handles very nicely. It's comfortable to shoulder, and very fast from sight picture to sight picture, the ergos are a lot better than they look. Looks like it shoots very well for it's intended role.
 
Looks like it would be a great entry weapon (in full auto). I've handled the short one, and despite how it looks (lots of square, and no curves) it actually handles very nicely. It's comfortable to shoulder, and very fast from sight picture to sight picture, the ergos are a lot better than they look. Looks like it shoots very well for it's intended role.
Agreed. It looks unbelievably blocky but it's really comfortable to hold and shoot...and the recoil reduction system was startling in its effectiveness.
 
Agreed. It looks unbelievably blocky but it's really comfortable to hold and shoot...and the recoil reduction system was startling in its effectiveness.

I found the recoil system made things really wonky. Mind you the one I shot was in full auto. It was a pretty heavy beast as well. Maybe I'm just a sissy. Not a big fan. But as long as you are happy I'm happy for you.
 
Ive owned 3 of the NR versions and shot thousands of rounds through them... mostly "hot" norinco junk. Not one of them gave me even a second of trouble and would run VERY dirty if they were forced to. I agree the NR version looks weird... but anyone who says the ergos are crap is nuts. The Vector FEELS amazing to hold and to shoot. Its a gun designed from the ground up to be compact and fast... and it is. Mine were all relatively accurate out to 100 yards. At 50 they were actually quite good.

Anyone who says a JR carbine or Sub2000 is anywhere NEAR as good as the kriss... well they have clearly not spent much time with them. The kriss is in a different league. The only complaint I have is that while it doesnt have much muzzle rise at all and recoil is relatively non existent, the recoil simply FEELS strange. Its short and snappy, the gun does more shaking than it does recoiling. I didnt like that. Everything else about the gun I absolutely loved.

For anyone who agrees that the NR version looks weird, you can always try this setup:



Where/who would I go to in order to look into this setup???? I like what I see.
 
Wow I'm Afraid to come on this site now a days... I'm always wanting another gun it may cause a problem with the wife! Lol I never new that gun was available for us Canucks and in NR wow! How much do one of those beautiful scary guns cost! 2-3 g's
 
Wow I'm Afraid to come on this site now a days... I'm always wanting another gun it may cause a problem with the wife! Lol I never new that gun was available for us Canucks and in NR wow! How much do one of those beautiful scary guns cost! 2-3 g's

Why is it scary? I've never looked at a firearm and thought my god I just saw the Blair Witch Project.
 
NR versions go for around $2000.

Have you tried any other pistol cal sub guns that you can compare it to?


Vector
I have tried the vector and it is a nice rig in the 5.5", I am not a fan of the Non -restricted as I find the barrel ruins the guns balance. The vector I tried was running an Eo-tech and it was very accurate under 50 yards. It does shoot well and its surprising to see how well it manages the .45. My only negative impressions are that the ergonomics and controls are not ideal for a platform that was supposed to be the ultimate CQB. If running the FG, you need to break your grip to drop a mag, I am not a fan of the bolt release either and the safety is meh.

The irons that were on the one I tried were much better than most other pistol cal subs, and are detachable. The folding stock has some adjustability which makes it a bit better than some of the other options.

Pros: 10 rounds of 45 acp, pictany rail give many options, ambi controls, low recoil and state of the art, balance, available in NON RESTRICTED, glock mags are readily available and the KCI 30 rounders look cool and are affordable.
Cons: Price is ~$2k, controls are subjective, gritty trigger, can be picky with ammo, cost of .45 acp
(Restricted and NR)
$2000

I own/have owned several other pistol cal sub guns including BRS99/TP9/Skorpion and I have tried the sub 2000 and JR Carbines.

TP9
My opinion is that the TP9 has the best ergos of the bunch. I found the TP9 to be light, and comfortable, very eye catching and retardedly accurate. The mag release, and slide release are identical to a Glock (same with the trigger safety), I also prefer the ambi-charging handle location and design to the Vector, the TP9 is similar to an AR charging handle. Virtually no recoil, the TP9 has a trigger that has a lot of travel compared to BRS/Skorpion, but its similar to the Vector just smoother and less grit. The irons are junk, super low profile, but the copious amount of pictany rails and integrated FG are a big plus that give you a lot of options. Integrated folding stock is non adjustable but does the job, side folding, it doesn't affect shooting the firearm folded, nor does it affect controls.

Pros: accessory options, weight, ergos, ambi controls, several color options (black, tan, olive), 9mm cheap to shoot (can handle ball ammo and +P), military pedigree
Cons: proprietary plastic 5 round mags, price, fixed stock (subjective), super low cheek weld, (subjective)
(Restricted)
Price: $2000

M84
Skorpion has horrible ergos but it has a sweet trigger, almost zero recoil and it is a lot of fun to shoot. I find the .32 Auto is very accurate but underpowered, no muzzle flip, but the brass ejecting over your head with a wizzzzzzzzzz can be distracting, if you shoot inside the brass often rains down on you. The charging handle is a pain as it cycles when firing and affects your grip options. The skorpion is by far the most compact out of all pistol cal subs. My biggest complaint is the horrible iron sights, and the lack of pictany rail for mounting a red dot.

Pros: cool factor, low recoil, historical significance/military pedigree, size and weight, accuracy, trigger, 32 auto just to piss off Alan Rock
cons: Ergos, lack of rail for optics, ammo availability, 5 rounds mags and wont seat on a closed bolt, (proprietary steel mags are tightly pinned)
(restricted only)
Price: $1,000


BRS99
BRS99, its been a while since I fired one but I do remember the trigger being fantastic. The gun was very controllable and accurate mainly due to the crisp trigger. The controls are well laid out, with a nice pistol style mag release and I like the safety. The charging handle was ok, but not ambi. The stock was adjustable sliding into the gun in a handy setup. The one I tried had a after market pictany rail installed up top which requires gun smiting and milling. I have heard newer models now have the option of a pictany rail from the factory though which is a plus.

Pros: trigger and controls! look cool factor and lineage, Non restricted option... quick barrel change
Cons: 5 round mags, non ambi controls,
(non Restricted and restricted options)
Price: $1,600

JR Carbine
Takes glock mags and AR furniture with plenty of rail space for accessories. The non restricted status and the factory setup with multiple calibers make this a really appealing option, and at the $800 price point it is hard to beat with the quality of the build. I only tried

Pros: Price, quality, takes AR stocks and some other parts, Non restricted, glock mags, pictany rail and lots of space for mounting options, multiple calibers, adjustable stock
Cons: looks (subjective), lacks the military pedigree and cool factor of others, ???
Non-Restricted
Price ~$800

Sub 2000

cheapest of the bunch at $600, this interesting rig is available in two mag options IIRC (Sig, beretta or Glock). While feeling cheeply made, it is what it is, a low cost survival gun with 10 round pistol mags at its disposal. The gun is a bit cheap feeling, but it shoots ok and you can install a rail for optics and accessories. The folding aspect, is great for a portable truck gun or camp gun. I didn't mind the controls, but the trigger is junk, overall it feels like a cheap toy and does not have the build quality or reputation that the other guns mentioned do... however, this also costs 1/4 of what they do. Another important point... it is available in multiple calibers.

Pros: low cost, multiple mag options (glock/sig/beretta), non restricted, lots of rail space with quad rail model, folds in half to be more compact, stock irons are fugly but surprisingly functional, multi cal
Cons: cheap feeling, quality is not on par with others, trigger sucks,
Non restricted
Price: $600
 
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