The Tavor: Out In The Cold, the reprint. -31C Tavor cold soak, icing, and snow pack.

Ardent

Ardent

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Location
Northern BC, Coastal BC, or Africa. Depends on the
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The CGN legal edition.

I’m a traditionalist, when the Keltec KSG was first sent to me for a review I wasn’t immediately smitten. I like wood and steel guns still, and I’m making quite a departure moving into the modern realm of bullpups full of polymer. I ended up liking the KSG, much to my surprise, just as I’m also finding myself extremely fond of the Tavor. The number one question I had, and that I hear from others, with modern polymer guns and especially bullpups is just how reliable, and sturdy are they. To me in Northern Canada, that means cold. I stuck the Tavor out in the cold in an open cardboard box last night, and let it cold soak down to -31C at 0600 this morning when I checked it. I then posted my intentions on a forum I frequent, and received a suggestion to ice spray it. It sounded like a very good bad idea, and I increased the level of questionable choices by snow packing the rifle, tossing it multiple times into a snow bank following the ice spray.

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I sprayed the rifle with water from a spray bottle, focusing extra ice on the bolt / ejection port, magazine release and catch assembly, bolt catch, and trigger, ultimately coating the entire rifle with ice on the exterior. Then just prior to shooting, I tossed it in a snow bank, photographed it, and went straight to this video. Function was flawless, I continued to fire after the video and it even grouped just as well as usual. I was impressed, the amount of snow in the action doesn’t show, but it was an awful lot, and it didn’t bother the Tavor one bit. All polymer bits proved strong, and I fiddled hard with them at -31C, no concerns. The trigger photo above is after it was fired, as well as the mag catch assembly, you can see the ice broke away at the top of the trigger and around the edges of the mag catch. It took a fair bit of force to break the ice in both cases, and the same for the frozen selector (safety), no issues for any of the controls despite -31C.

Incidentally, video No.2 is the Tavor firing in "warmer" temps, a couple days before the water spray and deep freeze, about -15C. I appreciated how it has essentially zero muzzle rise, even under rapid fire. So far, I'm impressed by this rifle, 500 yards next.


 
thanks for taking the time to repost this with everything!

very interesting read!
every time i head out to Zama im going to think about your Buffalo story i read off your website!
 
wayupnorth said:
thanks for taking the time to repost this with everything!

very interesting read!
every time i head out to Zama im going to think about your Buffalo story i read off your website!
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Thanks, been around Zama, plenty of buffalo there too. Keep putting in for that draw, it comes up, and pretty easy hunting.

Epoxy7 said:
Drop test!!! On cement!! :p

All joking aside very cool.
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Thought about it, not kidding, I know it'll survive and I know I'll look at the flash hider / stock / grip dings / scrapes forever after and hate myself for it. :)

stjones said:
Man I need to get me a Tavor ASAP!!!
They seem to be a fantastic, short, non restricted platform!!!
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I do believe they are the best of the non-restricteds at present, and one of the best black rifles overalls too, but I've yet to make my mind up 100%. Will keep prodding at it. :)

Stevebot-7 said:
Cool stuff. It was pretty neat to see all the ice jump off on the first shot.
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She was very frozen, the snow inside wasn't well illustrated in the video, but there's was an awful lot in there, and ice stripped off the ammo. I was impressed.
 
There are of course a few things I don't like about it, sling attachments being one, the height of the sights above bore and how it screws with close shots (like anything with a bore under gas system but even worse), and the rather terrible trigger. There's a workaround however for the sling attachment I was just kindly introduced to, and the bore axis lets it shoot remarkably level under rapid fire, so that has a serious upside. The trigger there is no good fix yet for aside from the spring removal, but then it doesn't always reset, that's a downside. I have an idea for the trigger I'll try out, see if there merit in pursuing it further. All in all I'm appreciating the rifle more than I thought I would, and it's proving reliable even in very challenging conditions for a rifle. The snow physically in the action is the part that impressed me most.

It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good. For non-restricted, it's better than good.
 
I had the exact same feelings, took me, well, however long they've been out in Canada to decide to give one a go. Now I find myself on the range off handing groups I haven't produced with any black rifle from two legs, despite a pretty hard to love trigger. I think with a better trigger this would be terrific, at present, it's very, very good. The parts I struggle to like are easily surpassed by the good points. Will keep prodding at it.
 
Very nice Ardent. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

A couple of points of note;

I do believe the iced up tests I've read for other platforms allowed the rifle to have one in the chamber prior to icing up and seating the mag. The first round could have then cleared the mag of the problem with the general concussion/vibration of the shot and working the action. Although that was admittedly a lot of snow in there. I don't know if this is NATO standard for testing, but I have read it elsewhere so thought I'd mention it.

Personally I would have liked to see it done in stages. Testing for cold with cold ammo = does it go bang? Testing for snow pack (cold ammo) = does it go bang? Testing for iced up conditions (cold ammo) = does it go bang? Of course your test pretty well covered it all in one go, and I have no doubt the Tavor would have performed through each stage if done independently. The troubleshooting and scientific part of me would have just liked to see each stage which would allow an affirmation as to what could have been the cause of any said issue, rather than all stages packed together which can allow for some 'educated guessing' as to the cause of a malfunction.

Constructive critique aside, good job :D.
 
This thread has seriously got me considering selling my xcr and getting a tavor. I LOVE my xcr so this is an insanely hard decision. Maybe next time I'm at my range I'll rent a tavor and try 100 rounds or so.

Edit- there's no way my girl friend would let me have both so don't even suggest it haha
 
loki_81 said:
Very nice Ardent. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

A couple of points of note;

I do believe the iced up tests I've read for other platforms allowed the rifle to have one in the chamber prior to icing up and seating the mag. The first round could have then cleared the mag of the problem with the general concussion/vibration of the shot and working the action. Although that was admittedly a lot of snow in there. I don't know if this is NATO standard for testing, but I have read it elsewhere so thought I'd mention it.

Personally I would have liked to see it done in stages. Testing for cold with cold ammo = does it go bang? Testing for snow pack (cold ammo) = does it go bang? Testing for iced up conditions (cold ammo) = does it go bang? Of course your test pretty well covered it all in one go, and I have no doubt the Tavor would have performed through each stage if done independently. The troubleshooting and scientific part of me would have just liked to see each stage which would allow an affirmation as to what could have been the cause of any said issue, rather than all stages packed together which can allow for some 'educated guessing' as to the cause of a malfunction.

Constructive critique aside, good job :D.
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I fully agree, plan was if it failed to find out why by narrowing it down. Of course, it made it easy for me, I have to thank you for motivating me to ice it and snow pack it. Was considering how far to take it and your post in the first thread set me to, "What the heck."
 
Hokus Grey said:
I hate it when people make these videos of rifles that I've causally been considering and start making serious additions in the "Why the ##### don't I have one?" column.

When things become practical, it gets interesting.
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TheArmyMan204 said:
This thread has seriously got me considering selling my xcr and getting a tavor. I LOVE my xcr so this is an insanely hard decision. Maybe next time I'm at my range I'll rent a tavor and try 100 rounds or so.

Edit- there's no way my girl friend would let me have both so don't even suggest it haha
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To both of you- sorry, and your welcome.

jobbass said:
that doesn't change the fact , that it is an UGLY rifle
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Yep, and ugly works. I own plenty of beautiful guns I'd never do this to. :)
 
Good wrote up and videos. One test though I'd like to see done, is the rifle in icicle condition like that then rapidly heated up by firing it. Our stupid mag laws prevent this unless you're really fast changing them. Just see the effects of condensation, then the condensation freezing, then repeat the process. Basically freeze mag dump freeze repeat.
 
dahs said:
Good wrote up and videos. One test though I'd like to see done, is the rifle in icicle condition like that then rapidly heated up by firing it. Our stupid mag laws prevent this unless you're really fast changing them. Just see the effects of condensation, then the condensation freezing, then repeat the process. Basically freeze mag dump freeze repeat.
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Would be interesting, I did this very half arsed, in that when done I drove the rifle home in the cab of the heated truck instead of in the cold like the trip to the range. When home I put it back in the cold to let the melt that had started creep in everywhere and freeze again, in reality just to postpone having to dry it out. I was already thinking maybe I should go back to the range, but with a Mrs and kids now awake at home satisfied myself with a #### and click check, everything worked swell. Just like the first ice coating, it simply took more force on all the controls the first cocking, but everything worked as normal. When thawed out for good in the bathtub an impressive amount of water came out of it.
 
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