First Antique Gun- some newbie questions, French 1873 MAS

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It should be noted that in the UK you can not use your antique, it is only a collectable paperweight. So if people want to get use out of their antiques, which is currently permitted in Canada, so be it, just do it safely.
I wish I had owned and enjoyed 12.6 revolvers before they were prohibited, I regret not owning FA when it was legal. Antiques will no doubt one day bite the dust as they did in the UK, get out there and enjoy them while you can.
 
It should be noted that in the UK you can not use your antique, it is only a collectable paperweight. So if people want to get use out of their antiques, which is currently permitted in Canada, so be it, just do it safely.
I wish I had owned and enjoyed 12.6 revolvers before they were prohibited, I regret not owning FA when it was legal. Antiques will no doubt one day bite the dust as they did in the UK, get out there and enjoy them while you can.

it will only happen if we sit back and take it like we have in the past but you know that's the Canadian way it seems
 
Problem is if you have a hostile government at the helm we have nothing effective in our arsenal to combat it.

We're just getting strung along into oblivion because we have no other choice, as much as I wish it wasn't so...
 
Problem is if you have a hostile government at the helm we have nothing effective in our arsenal to combat it.

We're just getting strung along into oblivion because we have no other choice, as much as I wish it wasn't so...

maybe standing up and saying enough is enough and showing the numbers of us would make people think but you know we are a docile bunch us Canadians I for one am sick of being a stereotype maybe more people should do the same
 
Problem is if you have a hostile government at the helm we have nothing effective in our arsenal to combat it.

We're just getting strung along into oblivion because we have no other choice, as much as I wish it wasn't so...

So true^^

25000 on Parliament Hill for fed up didn't stop the Liberals the last time.
 
So. With all of this, it would appear that the response to his questions are;

1. Check with his local Firearms Officer for a ruling on status and where he can use it; and
2. Have a competent gunsmith inspect it prior to use?

Long way around the barn to get to this point.
 
WOW ....... I started to type out something to combat the misinformation posted in this thread , then I thought "##### it " ....... there are few people that really need to learn how to use the search button ......

tons of correct useful information has been posted regarding antiques , and their discrete , LEGAL use .

and there is one person who has posted in this thread that is deserving of a outright ban for either trolling or deliberately posting misinformation .
 
So. With all of this, it would appear that the response to his questions are;

1. Check with his local Firearms Officer for a ruling on status and where he can use it; and
2. Have a competent gunsmith inspect it prior to use?

Long way around the barn to get to this point.

Apparently you didn't read the part about factory ammo blowing these guns up.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Do not fire factory 45acp ammo in this gun unless you are sure it is a soft lead projectile and the pressure is no greater than 11600psi.
Factory 45acp ammo is usually jacketed and runs at a pressure of 21000psi and as few as one of these is all it takes to damage the gun beyond repair. (and perhaps yourself)
When in doubt reload your own to 11600psi and be safe.

Cowboy action ammo is said to be lower pressure but I can't find any actual numbers. Who knows. It could be 19000psi which is still too much.
 
Is it an antique firearm ie proscribe falling under antique firearm laws then just a locked case shoot it anywhere a non restricted firearm can be shot. It's a simple as that.

For reloading you want to use a lead round and make sure it's not over pressured or under pressured for example the webly mk 1 I have shoots 45 acp if I shoot full power loads it will break at some point as its a proof load every shot.

[youtube]bzr9BoPrteQ[/youtube]
 
Thanks everyone for the advice! Two more things 1) Where can I legally shoot a non-restricted firearm- haven't been able to find any detailed guidelines for this? and 2) Just curious but why only lead bullets and not say FMJ? Is it because of barrel wear?
 
Thanks everyone for the advice! Two more things 1) Where can I legally shoot a non-restricted firearm- haven't been able to find any detailed guidelines for this? and 2) Just curious but why only lead bullets and not say FMJ? Is it because of barrel wear?

It has more to do with rifling design, material strength, bullet diameter and the fact that the revolver was designed for soft lead in the first place. Not just lead (like wheel weights) Soft lead / pure lead. Anything else will spike the pressure. The max pressure you have to work with is 11600psi. so you don't have much to work with in the first place. A jacketed bullet is definitely a modern round at 21000psi and is very dangerous in this gun.

I know that this revolver looks strong but it isn't. It has some of the best metal available 120 years ago but it just isn't even close to modern standards. Metallurgy has improved by leaps and bounds over the last hundred years. It is a well known fact that factory 45acp will destroy this gun and possibly maim or kill the shooter. The magic number is 11600psi. Keep the load below that and use pure lead bullets of the right diameter and you should be fine. The only way I know to do this is to reload. I haven't found any off the shelf ammo that specifies a pressure of 11600psi or lower.

If you haven't read my long post in this thread with all the math then please go back and read it.

The rules about where you can legally shoot a non-restricted firearm depends on a few things including the laws of the municipality. I'm not sure what else is involved as I shoot at a range. One thing you have to be careful of is having someone see you or hear you and calling the authorities. Hardly anyone knows that you can shoot antique revolvers anyplace that you can shoot non-restricteds including the authorities. Usually they will err on the side of caution and haul you off to the station while they sort it out. Best to avoid that altogether and shoot where it is safe and you don't have to worry about others ie. far away.
 
Is it an antique firearm ie proscribe falling under antique firearm laws then just a locked case shoot it anywhere a non restricted firearm can be shot. It's a simple as that.

For reloading you want to use a lead round and make sure it's not over pressured or under pressured for example the webly mk 1 I have shoots 45 acp if I shoot full power loads it will break at some point as its a proof load every shot.

[youtube]bzr9BoPrteQ[/youtube]

The loads he is making in this video are too strong for the 1873. He states that the Webley can handle 15000psi whereas your looking at 11600psi for the 1873. I normally load black powder which is easy as the starting load is just a full case uncompressed with no air. Trail Boss loads in a similar manner as well.
 
well if people read your posts you admit in one your a "amateur" (a person whos not and expert) where i see some of your points alot of what your posting has nothing to do with modern 45 acp converted 1873 revolvers that are set up in the correct way.

The reasons some 1873s blew up in the past is they did not know to open up the tight chamber throats. some guns have .450 chamber throats or even less some are .452
every gun ive sold in 45 acp has had its chamber throats checked and opened up to .452 for safty reasons so please dont lump all 1873 french guns in the same boat.
By doing this it takes alot of presure off the guns cylinder.
The ones that blew up in the past were from useing hard ball ammo in poorly converted guns or supper hot loads that will blow up a webley or any antique that they ended up in.
Some 1873s blew up in orignal 11MM as well where guys used 44 40 cases shortened and the wrong bullets for the chamber throats and theses were 11mm orignal guns untouched by anyone since new all because someone didnt know what they were doing.
If a french 1873 is set up correct it can shoot both 455 and 45 acp the later being a better cartridge as the 45 acp bullets are .452 dia the 455 bullets are .455 and that puts way more stress on the guns.
Theres dozens of guys shooting them in Canada now with 0 problems with safe loads.
Before you lump all 1873s together as dangerous abominations you should first understand how there converted to 45 acp i dont think you do.
I have had over 30 guns run thru my hands how many have you had inspected ?
Yes its better to reload with soft lead bullets and a safe powder charge but you do not want to get to silly with the low power loads theres this thing called deteonation where many a good gun includeing modern made SAA colts made after 1898 Blow up! top strap strait up cylinder blowin to bits not from a hard charge but from a low charge.
Look that up on the internet :)
Because once a french 1873 is altered in the corerect way so the presure dont build up from tight chamber throats then 45 acp reloads is compleatly safe as long as your shooting the correct ammo and its always better to reload.
As to the strength of the french 1873s well there soilid frame alot stronger than the MKI and MKII webley break open actions and theres lots of guys shooting 45 acp thru them with no problems because they use common sence in there choices of ammo.

Please people use common sence with shooting any antique handgun and read the stickys before posting questions that have been answered in the stickys.
Theres alot of good info up there just go read it. :)
 
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Thanks for clarifying all that Dingus!

Yes no problem keep in mind that lead bullets are a must and not to hard a lead bullet. If you can mark it with your thumb nail thats a sign its not really hard lead, but theres better way of checking.
There good guns when set up right in 45 acp with the chamber throats checked the bores need to be checked to as they do varry some are tighter some are like .454 all the ones ive had and sold were checked over. if you get one your not sure about its always a good idea to measure your chamber throats and bore in any gun your going to be shooting and keep the loads reasonable but dont under load either.

Have fun be safe and responsible and do read the stickys :)

Also anyone that would tell you to call a CFO to check out if a french 1873 is antique or not is clueless.
I have a RCMP FRT sheet that lists webley MKIIs in 45 acp as perscribed antiques.
The RCMP FRT sheet on french 1873s list them as perscribed antiques to.
So the FRT is proof that guns converted to 45 acp are in fact perscribed Antiques its right on the newer Webley MKII FRT reports.
 
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At least we agree on the fact that the safest load is a reload specifically for this revolver.

I may be an amateur but the infromation I posted was from a French engineer who published his findings on the work he did on these revolvers. I think I am going to put my trust in him.

He says the max load should be 11600psi. I think this is a good target to reload for.


Your modified guns ARE abominations. At some point someone is going to shoot factory 45acp loads through one and hurt themselves.

At least this will be on your conscience and not mine.
 
At least we agree on the fact that the safest load is a reload specifically for this revolver.

I may be an amateur but the infromation I posted was from a French engineer who published his findings on the work he did on these revolvers. I think I am going to put my trust in him.

He says the max load should be 11600psi. I think this is a good target to reload for.


Your modified guns ARE abominations. At some point someone is going to shoot factory 45acp loads through one and hurt themselves.

At least this will be on your conscience and not mine.

I dont convert them to 45 acp myself nor do i convert 45 acp webleys. I am selling guns that are inspected and tell the buyers what to shoot in the guns what not to. if someone is so stupid to shoot hot factory ammo in a gun thats 130 years old well as you already said you cant control stupid.
lucky most of the CGNers that post here know that what your saying is over the top.
Nothing wrong with a gun that shoots 45 acp just like a SAA colt in 38 Sp someone could try 38 Sp P loads in one but again thats not real smart.
You would rather there only be french guns in 11 mm but thats not whats out there.

Like i said its all in how they are converted if done right there safe fun easy to load for and shoot great. the history of theses sold in Canada over the last 8 years or so proves im right.
One or two guys posting B.S with no clue as to how there converted saying there all no good is just well B.S

I call B.S as there would be guys posting pics on this forum in the last 8 years never seen one picture of a Canuck who blew even one 1873 up i sold, either by a double load or other mystry reason.
Proofs in the facts that i have seen with the guns i have sold ( i cant speak to other guns sold by someone else) I think people are for the most part safe and smart enough to know not to shoot hot factory FMJ ammo in theses old guns. thats why you dont hear about it happening now .

What some french guy did so many years ago or what they did in WWI with some old files in the trenchs has nothing to do with modern conversions done with precision reamers on modern milling machines.
Its not the guns that are unsafe its the nut behind the butt that does something stupid :)

Again its best to check the chamber throats Dia and to check slug the bore if your not sure.
 
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