Brand Loyalty, love/hate...etc

People should care about quality, if everyone keeps buying the crap then the companies making good stuff don't make enough money to stay afloat and then all that is available is cheap crap. It's not like the Canadian market is large enough to make or break any company but the fact that many on here contribute in the SHTF or WROL scenario and what rifle they would want threads then say a Norinco is their number one choice is sickening. They have obviously never used a quality AR. There is nothing wrong with a cheap rifle for plinking at the range but if you are going to talk about using it to protect your life or the lives of your loved ones why would you choose the cheapest option available? People claim them to be reliable after shooting 300 rounds down the barrel which is barely broken in. Quality firearms are ones like the HK G36 which is designed to run 20000 rounds without cleaning without failure, just a drop or two of oil once in a while and keep shooting.

People are free to like whatever they want but when they start comparing a made in China $600 rifle to a US, German, Swiss etc then they should expect to have it sh!t on.

Tell Brian 46 that. I don't disagree with any of that.

The only inexpensive gun I like and run is my cz, and that is because after 2k+ rounds I have yet to have any firearm related malfunctions. With more to come over time. My pistol choices are simply, HK is my first choice, if no HK available I grab a glock. And that's where my voluntary choices of pistols end. Well maybe a german made sig.

For rifles hell I am desperately searching for a legit 416 top right now. And I hope that 243/293 gets the good to go, so I can buy one.

I don't see your point because the people I know would buy an HK, even they guys I know who always buy cheap (price point) stuff like sks's and norinco will still buy an HK, I know this may be a weird concept to you but that is just the way I see it.

So how many are there? The guys who buy cheap stuff like sks and norinco, what hk or any other reputable brand product have they bought in the past? Talk is cheap which ones have they plonked the cash down for? Same thing as the titanium exhausts, ooh thats so nice I would love to get it, but only few get it, the rest buy some cheap knockoff made from low quality steel. It's not a weird concept purchasing quality products is the logical way to go. I don't buy norinco because I have yet to see one that functions flawless on a long term basis. I don't own any Hk rifles but the two HK handguns I have didn't choke yet. Nor do I expect them to.

I've heard more than one norc owner that yes I will buy something nice later, somehow that later never happens they just continue to buy more garbage
 
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"...Who's Justin Beiber?..." That punk from Stratford, but who cares?
"...Who is Austin Mahone?..." That punk from some place else, but who cares?
"...Brand Loyalty..." No such thing any more. If you want to play with civilian copies of a battle rifle, your options are extremely limited. Mind you, some of 'em are just junk, built and sold on looks alone.
 
People should care about quality, if everyone keeps buying the crap then the companies making good stuff don't make enough money to stay afloat and then all that is available is cheap crap. It's not like the Canadian market is large enough to make or break any company but the fact that many on here contribute in the SHTF or WROL scenario and what rifle they would want threads then say a Norinco is their number one choice is sickening. They have obviously never used a quality AR. There is nothing wrong with a cheap rifle for plinking at the range but if you are going to talk about using it to protect your life or the lives of your loved ones why would you choose the cheapest option available? People claim them to be reliable after shooting 300 rounds down the barrel which is barely broken in. Quality firearms are ones like the HK G36 which is designed to run 20000 rounds without cleaning without failure, just a drop or two of oil once in a while and keep shooting.

People are free to like whatever they want but when they start comparing a made in China $600 rifle to a US, German, Swiss etc then they should expect to have it sh!t on.

They don't know the difference. If I ran a quantum flux capacitor in my car and all you had was a V6 you would never understand why I shat on you for only having a V6, you would think I was too elitist to ever let you even try to see the difference.

Lend people your quality guns (in before #### that) so they can feel the difference and understand.
 
What is there to "tell me" in that?

If you think I am a proponent to buying price point rifles over quality ones you are sorely mistaken. I even agree with your above post to a point so long as the HK and glocks you are talking about are still german and austrian made unlike their USA counterparts
 
What is there to "tell me" in that?

If you think I am a proponent to buying price point rifles over quality ones you are sorely mistaken. I even agree with your above post to a point so long as the HK and glocks you are talking about are still german and austrian made unlike their USA counterparts

No, you think that a lot of people in canada are ready to fork over the money for quality. They aren't look around, unless you go to a privately closed off range or a member exclusive range most people buy cheap garbage. Majority of people buy based off money, not off quality, How many threads do you see where someone says here is the role, whats the best gun for the role? No it's always whats the best rifle/hangun at x price. <- That sort of person will almost certainly never purchase a HK in their life.

I'm not saying you are a proponent to buying cheap crap, I know you have quality hardware, I'm saying you think most of the firearms community thinks along our line, the sad reality is the opposite.
 
I personally have both Norinco and Knights Armament, both considered by most to be at either end of the spectrum.

I have a few brands that people would consider to be in between the two of these.

There is quality differences, there are price differences, there are different reasons for me owning different firearms.


There always seems to be extremes though when discussions come up.


We all have to remember that is really about people getting out shooting and expanding the sport.


We need to live our own lives, not other peoples. If some one uses something you have a problem with, there is no reason to worry about it. It's their life, their money ;)
 
I hope you realize that this site has a congregation of the "price point" guys, and rightly so, they need a place to talk about the constant fixes and upgrades that come out to keep their rifles running. When was the last time you saw anyone asking how to get their hk to run right or what the latest fix was..........Never!

This site is not a good representation of gun owners in canada as a whole from my experience, I know many gun owners who are not members here.
 
All the raving, frothing opinions on this site have made it a useless place to get advice on firearms, as the haters will scream one way, while the happy owners shrug and mumble the other way. At the end of the day, the information is useless. It's a microcosm of the species; a whole lot of scrambling, discussion and conflict, but it is largely no more meaningful than the sound of rain falling.
 
All the raving, frothing opinions on this site have made it a useless place to get advice on firearms, as the haters will scream one way, while the happy owners shrug and mumble the other way. At the end of the day, the information is useless. It's a microcosm of the species; a whole lot of scrambling, discussion and conflict, but it is largely no more meaningful than the sound of rain falling.

I have to disagree to a point with you. I've gained a lot of useful knowledge off this site BUT its become rather hard to do, I just filter through the excessive rambling and find someone with an actual knowledgeable opinion.
 
I have to disagree to a point with you. I've gained a lot of useful knowledge off this site BUT its become rather hard to do, I just filter through the excessive rambling and find someone with an actual knowledgeable opinion.

I disagree with me too, which I think goes toward my point. ;) It's like trying to meet girls at a gun show; it can be done, but you have to surf through a lot of danglers to get to them.
 
What about legitimate issues like parts failing from brand xyz, can we start our own thread on that without it getting locked or infractions?
I get that you don't want to see it in every thread about brand xyz

Depending on the company in question the answer could be yes or no. Certain brands are "protected" on CGN.
 
Brand loyalty.. sometimes yes sometimes no. Personal experience and decent research based on facts and first hand knowledge will assist you in making an informed decision. Don't let the brand name be the make or break reason for the deal. Personally, I will poll opinions before certain purchases especially if there is a lot of negative discussion about it everywhere you look. If I poll opinions then find equal + - feedback then I will try to find a sample locally to take a closer look (maybe borrow from a friend or "test drive" it if the option exists) and use that to formulate my own opinion.

I know when I bought my 7.5" bushy years ago there was a lot of SBR bashing and Bushy bashing going on at the time . OEM SBR's weren' t all that common and most were franken-guns which added a lot to the -ve side of the argument. Some decent research and the opportunity to try out an OEM SBR sealed the deal. Many thousands of rounds later it remains my most fun AR to shoot and has run flawlessly including during some high volume courses of fire at various courses.

Just saying. YMMV
 
They don't know the difference. If I ran a quantum flux capacitor in my car and all you had was a V6 you would never understand why I shat on you for only having a V6, you would think I was too elitist to ever let you even try to see the difference.

Lend people your quality guns (in before #### that) so they can feel the difference and understand.

Is that the gen 2 flux capacitor?

I let everyone shoot my rifles. My HK SL8-4 with HERA lower and ACR stock, my precision AR, my RFB, and my PWS 12 inch are always open for anyone at the range to try any time. I did the same thing with my Swiss Arms and my Vector before I got rid of them. Even my Desert Tactical SRS in 338 Lapua gets shot by strangers. They only get one or two shots though due to the price of ammo. If someone comes to talk to me at the range and compliments one of my rifles I always reply with "wanna try it?".

Same goes with optics, people say Bushnell is good, I let them look through my Nightforce or Sightron S3 and they quickly realize what I mean about clarity.
I realize people need to start at one point and slowly they realize they want more and that it's worth the money to save up for the expensive stuff. I was there once to, but don't try to tell me there is no difference in quality between a Norinco and an LMT or a Bushnell and a Nightforce, if you do your going to get sh!t on.
 
Has anyone actually joined the thread yet and answered the question??? I hate tavors lmao

There was no question, it was a moderator telling us to be respectful of other peoples opinions and let them like what they want without jumping all over them just because you like something else.

It's derailed a little since then as usual :p
 
All the raving, frothing opinions on this site have made it a useless place to get advice on firearms, as the haters will scream one way, while the happy owners shrug and mumble the other way. At the end of the day, the information is useless. It's a microcosm of the species; a whole lot of scrambling, discussion and conflict, but it is largely no more meaningful than the sound of rain falling.

I'm not a fan of either brand loyalty or brand animosity, but the bolded section highlights what I find to be a common false dichotomy on gun forums.

A lot of people separate opinions into "happy owners" and "haters". This particularly happens with cheaper guns.

There are those two groups. There are also unhappy owners, indifferent owners, indifferent non-owners, people with lots of experience who don't like guns based on legitimate information, and so on.

Not every criticism is unwarranted brand bashing. Some companies genuinely put out inferior products. That is not to say that every single "brand X" thread should be a flame fest but at the same time, if there is a discussion about the merits of a given gun, I think it's pretty reasonable to say "brand X has a history of product recalls" or "brand X has become notorious for failure Y".

I couldn't count the number of times I've been called a "hater" and my descriptions of problems with various guns have been characterized as "spewing" by people who are happy with their guns. Or the number of times people have said something along the lines of "do you own one? Then you don't know, so #### off" despite the fact that while I don't own one I have had to fix the same issue on five of them for different people, say. Or I happen to know that the manufacturer of a given item had a major problem with porosity of welds on a particular item because I was there when it was discovered, or the person who figured out the issue is a friend of mine, and I know the manufacturer calculated the cost of the fix against the cost of the small number of returns they were getting, and decided to do nothing, gambling on the fact that most people don't shoot enough to encounter the problem.

So while I agree that brand loyalty and brand animosity are both stupid, there's also being informed about different manufacturers, as well as varying levels of acceptance when it comes to quality. For example, I buy Norinco 1911s because I have the facilities to correct all their issues. As a result I am pretty tolerant of lousy fitting and nonexistent QC. If I didn't and I had to run them straight out of the box, I wouldn't buy them. I understand having different levels of quality tolerance and not everyone has to have the same values. Just remember that not all criticism is from people who just happen to prefer a different brand, and not everybody builds guns to the same standard.
 
Why people get jumps on just because they don't want to spend much on their firearms?
The stuff in my safes ranges from $99 norinco to $5k plus PGW. I buy what I want. SO WHAT?
 
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