IPSC Ontario elections
- Thread starter PapaHotel01
- Start date
Too many one day matches cause many of us to be left out in the cold. Maybe increased membership will also increase the amount of officials and co-organizers to allow for additional match days.
Not to mention the political advantage down the road of having as many handgun shooters as possible, justifying the need/purpose of handgun ownership in Canada.
As Hungrybeagle has said, you shouldn't only judge a candidate on black badge coursed given or how many matches they've hosted.
Not all candidates are black badge instructors, and nor should they be in order to he a good person for the growth of ipsc, cause it's what the bod member will do to create ways to grow and better the sport.
If bod is promoting we have more black badge course, then great, but who actually teaches the black badge doesn't matter....
a bod member only needs to create the situation and help/promote more members to become BB instructors in order to full fill the need, if such need grows, from the bods good work in growing our sport....
Also, bod members should be someone who together with other bod members, will find ways to better our sport and grow it, and increasing matches being held, is one great way to better our sport, as it is much needed..
Again, who actually holds the matches, doesn't have to be a bod member.....
As I've posted in Ontario forum, I believe a bod member should be someone who's experienced many aspects of ipsc and not only a shooter, but not only decide on a vote, based on if candidate has hosted lots of matches of late..... though that's a great feature and happy for it, one shouldn't look at that only.
Also, not to take a way from great job Alex is doing on hosting lots of matches, but if some people are going to harp on the high level of matches being held is a great candidate characteristic... then only fair to throw out there... just so voters have full understanding of the situation.
Most MDs are purely volunteer for their local club and is not for profit... Alex, is doing great job hosting lots of matches and I've attended most of them and they're pretty decent matches (though I like to see a higher round count, since outdoors with two ranges), I believe, and a may be corrected if mistaken, he's not doing matches as the club rep, but as a side business, as a "for profit" set up.. and all the power to him.... he's creating lots of slots for shooters, that otherwise, lacking.. and hopefully the new bod will find ways to increase matches and better out sport all over Ontario.
But question for those who are only harping about great candidate is someone putting most matches recently (and question to that Alex) is, would such effort be put forward if he was the club rep for Silverdale, and was Non-profit venture ?
This is not a anit-Alex rant, cause I know him for longtime and have nothing against him personally and we get along.
He knows the sport super well as anyone and I'm sure he'll have some great ideas on how to improve our sport, but just have to put things into perspective for those harping about high match count makes someone a great candidate. One should judge the whole situation.
I believe Alex, as well as all the other candidates will come up with ways to better our sport, but voting can be done with knowing more factors.
Also, if more folks start putting on matches and as a business to make money, I'm cool with that, if that's what it'll take to create more great matches.
Last edited:
Could also be a disadvantage when new members get frustrated and don't renew because they can't get into a match..
I think its highly unlikely new members develop into future MDs ....statistically its a very small amount.
My point is you can't force growth...and efforts to increase membership are probably misguided at this points (more matches will naturally draw more new members)
What makes me laugh is the motion of growth in numbers. It is so silly and disillusional. Growth to what?? More people who has complete BB?? How many actually end up renewing their membership, how many actually care to shoot IPSC?? Every year we loose +/- 25% members from previous year, why??
IPSC is not for every one, instead spending time and resources on keeping membership so artificially high, I would rather see investing in quality, improving and repairing relationships between ranges, teaching MD how to make successful matches, more level IIIs, getting sponsors into the game, focus on youth.
Running BB course in one day is disgrace! and money grab. How we can teach all the regulations, rules, and check if a new shooter is efficient enough with pistol to compete in his/her first classifier in only 8-10hours?? I would say, one week will be what some need.
My idea is focus on what we already have, make more matches, find new talents (young shooters) and make them better, be more transparent so other ranges will see us not only as an egoistic bunch of guys who think we are best, but rather as worthy to allow us their time and resources for outstanding matches.
Growth without strong fundamentals like ranges, matches, good relationships is worthless and will create lots of unhappy shooters who will follow agendas instead of building friendly and healthy relationships between fellow shooters.
IPSC is not for every one, instead spending time and resources on keeping membership so artificially high, I would rather see investing in quality, improving and repairing relationships between ranges, teaching MD how to make successful matches, more level IIIs, getting sponsors into the game, focus on youth.
Running BB course in one day is disgrace! and money grab. How we can teach all the regulations, rules, and check if a new shooter is efficient enough with pistol to compete in his/her first classifier in only 8-10hours?? I would say, one week will be what some need.
My idea is focus on what we already have, make more matches, find new talents (young shooters) and make them better, be more transparent so other ranges will see us not only as an egoistic bunch of guys who think we are best, but rather as worthy to allow us their time and resources for outstanding matches.
Growth without strong fundamentals like ranges, matches, good relationships is worthless and will create lots of unhappy shooters who will follow agendas instead of building friendly and healthy relationships between fellow shooters.
Onagoth,
there are many who enter pistol competition and demonstrate safe gun handling, but there more who don't. Why we are bit more watchful when we see a new guy? Is there a reason to pay more attention? Having one day course, in my opinion it is a bad idea. I am not advocating for week, rather for quality.
Maybe there should be a system, that shooting range vouches for a BB candidate, which means, that someone have checked that individual and showed him few things which can make him passing BB easier and also help him along with his shooting. Having a short BB course will produce numbers but not quality. In any sport, is not a talent but hard work and dedication which makes athletes better, in our sport there is one more component we forget so often but shouldn't, it is a safety. In one day, I can not teach enough, but over the time yes, through reinforcing basics like trigger off till shooting target, watching muzzle, not breaking 90s, overall awareness of where you are. This takes time and for most of us, becomes a subconscious so we don't even think we do it. New guys need to learn those first before anything else.
Not bad ideas, but I think legal liability would preclude those kinds of things.
If individuals were given a chance or the option to "challenge" the BB course in a match or during dedicated CoFs, than I wouldn't oppose longer, more thorough courses. To me this would suggest only those taking the course are not confident enough in their skills to "challenge", so it is at least more appropriate. But sadly, this doesn't exist, even experienced shooters have to undergo the full weekend course, which in some cases, doesn't teach anyhting new, or at least not enough to justify a whole weekend.
Another interesting observation I've made is that some individuals who promote longer, more extensive safety training, also have no compunction or hesitation about shooting in the US, where mandatory safety courses are virtually non-existent. This to me is an odd contradiction.
Alex is head and shoulders above other candidates.
We should consider ourselves lucky, that he is willing to run for the position.
If he is not elected, that'll be large black mark on this organization.
We should consider ourselves lucky, that he is willing to run for the position.
If he is not elected, that'll be large black mark on this organization.
Are you running? That almost sounded like an election platform.
and...
Pardon my ignorance, but what is Alex running for?
Are you running? That almost sounded like an election platform.
and...
Pardon my ignorance, but what is Alex running for?
Sorry I know you asked Peter but I can answer. Peter isn't running but should be! None of the seven nominees are running for a particular position. That will happen after the four new board members are voted in. Two will have two year terms and two will have one year terms depending on amount of votes per candidate.
Black mark? Have you travelled outside of Silverdale?
Just because U.S. doesn't have a per-requisite of some sort of BB course, doesn't mean that's a good thing. I can only guess that AD's and similar problems/mistakes are high % there than here.. I have no stats on this and if they exist, I'd like to see them. It's only likely the case, cause in any aspect of life, less training, poorer results are likely, etc...
After all, we're in a high paced game with a loaded gun... I as a person with half a brain (not sure what happened to the other half), conclude, training is a good thing.
A week long not the answer, but 2 day weekend, should be enough. Anything shorter would be fine if someone is truly experience and such to be in similar sport....and someone can vouch for their experience... but one day course for some one who's shot long guns for long while and now pistol for short time or someone no one knows or can vouch for.... Sorry, too many VERY poor gun handling folks out there and proving them safe is, well, safe thing to do.
We've all seen videos of others poor gun handling, whether individual guy, or from cqb guys, or even some idpa, for that matter...oops, yes I said that... sorry, witnessed less skills myself, so not talking out of my ass....
Just like joining new hand gun club..even if you came from another club, if no one knows you, how could they assume you're safe ? It sucks to do another safety period with new club, but it makes sense why..... And for those who don't understand why, well, that's because you're the why, you're the problem shooter....
This specific topic can and should be discussed on it's own thread.
After all, we're in a high paced game with a loaded gun... I as a person with half a brain (not sure what happened to the other half), conclude, training is a good thing.
A week long not the answer, but 2 day weekend, should be enough. Anything shorter would be fine if someone is truly experience and such to be in similar sport....and someone can vouch for their experience... but one day course for some one who's shot long guns for long while and now pistol for short time or someone no one knows or can vouch for.... Sorry, too many VERY poor gun handling folks out there and proving them safe is, well, safe thing to do.
We've all seen videos of others poor gun handling, whether individual guy, or from cqb guys, or even some idpa, for that matter...oops, yes I said that... sorry, witnessed less skills myself, so not talking out of my ass....
Just like joining new hand gun club..even if you came from another club, if no one knows you, how could they assume you're safe ? It sucks to do another safety period with new club, but it makes sense why..... And for those who don't understand why, well, that's because you're the why, you're the problem shooter....
This specific topic can and should be discussed on it's own thread.
Alex is a good candidate as others, and it is upto the IPSC members in Ontario to choose four guys they feel strongest about.
On IPSC ON forum, I made a proposal. Since we are in low 1 thousands numbers, we should increase to 7 our BOD, therefore
only one guy will be left out of 7 running for BOD. Unfortunately this can not happen, legal issue were quoted.
I strongly oppose one candidate, person which has zero people skills and is not a team player.
Board is a group of individuals (IPSC is very egocentric sport) who at the end must work as a team. Selecting those who will pull towards
one side or come with their own private agendas is not an option taking into account amount of work which needs to be done.
Remember this when you cast your vote. Anyone who is extreme is not good for this organization, changes, yes, must happen but slow and
with respect to the membership, after all it is us who select them.
Having taken the BB course a couple of years ago, it being a 2 day course over a weekend, I found it plenty long enough. Any more would turn people off even trying to get the BB. Who has all that time to spare?
I would say that right now, shooting sports and gun ownership being what they are in Canada, quantity is more important than quality - as long as we are safe. If I recall correctly from the last mailing, there are less than 4000 IPSC organization members in Canada, nearly half of which are in Ontario. When the handgun bans come down, killing a sport with 50,000 participants nationwide is a lot harder than killing a sport with 5000 participants nationwide.
I also agree that more matches are needed, and to be honest they don't have to be level 3's either. For the hard-core IPSC shooters who want to go to nationals or even worlds, high level matches are a big deal, I understand of course. But for novices (like me) who will make up the bulk of the membership, who pay the bulk of the dues, and who keep the sport growing, a match you can do in a couple of hours on a weekend or an evening is just right for a fun hobby, which is what IPSC is to most shooters, I believe, especially shooters in large numbers that we need.
Finally, if someone can make a profit in IPSC - WOW! Go for it as long as an eye is always kept on making sure that IPSC Ontario is kept healthy and growing, and no safety is compromised. Where there is money, there will be a better chance for growth, and the sport won't be as dependent on a small number of people who give up enormous amounts of their time, freely, but who might not always be around to carry the ball.
I would say that right now, shooting sports and gun ownership being what they are in Canada, quantity is more important than quality - as long as we are safe. If I recall correctly from the last mailing, there are less than 4000 IPSC organization members in Canada, nearly half of which are in Ontario. When the handgun bans come down, killing a sport with 50,000 participants nationwide is a lot harder than killing a sport with 5000 participants nationwide.
I also agree that more matches are needed, and to be honest they don't have to be level 3's either. For the hard-core IPSC shooters who want to go to nationals or even worlds, high level matches are a big deal, I understand of course. But for novices (like me) who will make up the bulk of the membership, who pay the bulk of the dues, and who keep the sport growing, a match you can do in a couple of hours on a weekend or an evening is just right for a fun hobby, which is what IPSC is to most shooters, I believe, especially shooters in large numbers that we need.
Finally, if someone can make a profit in IPSC - WOW! Go for it as long as an eye is always kept on making sure that IPSC Ontario is kept healthy and growing, and no safety is compromised. Where there is money, there will be a better chance for growth, and the sport won't be as dependent on a small number of people who give up enormous amounts of their time, freely, but who might not always be around to carry the ball.
Last edited:
I agree with Stavros,
BB course serves its purpose. USA is bit different due to the gun culture and easier access to shooting sports in general,
however here is the list of DQs from last USA IPSC NATS in Florida
http://www.universalshootingacademy.com/assets/2013/01/2013-US-IPSC-Nationals-Overall-Results.pdf
Yes, I agree with you, we will need more people shooting guns in Canada, but do you really think for a second, that 50,000 will make any difference??
Now, how would you accommodate so many shooters in country which maybe has couple real shooting ranges? and so much land
Making so many BBages is like making kids and putting them on welfare.
First you need base, which is a system, ranges, devoted people, resources, having media on our side, after that you increase numbers.
Increasing numbers wont be that hard if you decrease course fee and drop first match fee, but those who are geared towards profit will never do that, would they?
I am not running and probably never will, but have been in this sport for few years to see (imo) what needs to be done before increasing numbers.
