42 Longbranch Unusual Upper Handguard With new pics

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patrickosuave

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I'm new to Enfields and just picked up a 42 Longbranch. Mine seems unusual in that my rear handguard wood extends rearward 5/16" behind rear band. Also, rear band instead of steel appears to be made of copper?
Is this the right handguard? Is it for an Ishapore? What have I got?
It's a No4 Mk1* metal buttplate, stamped ladder sight, no FTR marks. Serial no 19L91xx.
Thank you for any feedback. I apologize for my ihttp://s1062.photobucket.com/user/patrickosuave1/media/No4%20Mk1/1034.jpg.html?sort=3&o=14nability to post pictures.


As you can see I'm having a little trouble comprehending the simple task of posting photos.
Yes, it's more than just a little bit embarrassing.
 
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That is really odd. Have never seen an extended rear handguard like that or one of those copper bands.

I have to guess it was home-done.

Every No 4 I've ever seen that came from any of the factories had the normal pattern rear handguard ring and standard handguard length.

The upper handguard being made by CCM is completely normal. On a 42 it might well be one of those with the deep cut for a hinged band.
 
I have to say, I'm intrigued! I guess that if I was without a rear band, I too could decide it was easier to make an extended rear handguard held in place by a simple home-made band rather than try to make a weird-shaped metal band that would hold the normal handguard in place...
 
I used to have one that was very similar to that. At first I thought it was a bubba job but I had bought it at Lever Arms in 1967 and it came in with a bunch of other No4 rifles from Turkey or Afghanistan, somewhere in those regions. The stuff that used to come into that warehouse was just mind boggling and impossible to keep track of where it came from.

Mine was one of several that were different but similar to each other in that they all had modifications done to them along the same lines as the OPs pictures. Alan wouldn't put them in his showroom for sale and sold all of them off to a dealer for parts. I was allowed to pick one I liked as a bonus for cleaning them all up. I think he got around $5 apiece for them. They were all from different manufacturers as well.

Back in the mid fifties and right up to the early seventies, all of the nations that had Bedouin caravans were disarming them. The northern tribes of Turkey, Afghanistan and others, would go into the Soviet Union and trade their wares for weapons. I guess it was a large enough trade to cause a lot of concern for the nations involved.

There were few if any enforced rules about the trade of firearms back in those heady days, especially those considered to be obsolete, surplus junk by most governments. All I can tell you, is that at $5 each, Alan was making a decent profit on them, even including my time to clean them up.

In all honesty, whoever did that modification, likely only did so because the area he lived in had either extreme hot or cold conditions, maybe both. Otherwise, he wouldn't have bothered.

There is a very good chance that rifle was modified by some illiterate, tough, and enterprising fellow that was handy with a piece of wood and a knife. Because the retaining band is copper, which for me was the clincher of where it was modified, I think he either did that himself or had one of the metalsmiths in a populated area make it up for him. The extra inletting in the stock was likely his own work as well.

It's very easy to underestimate the levels those wanderers would go to, just to have a functioning rifle that they could carry/shoot with bare hands under all conditions. These are smart, make do with what is on hand individuals and IMHO, that rifle is a good example of their craftsmanship.
 
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An interesting solution to a problem. There was some thought put into the fabrication of this rear handguard by someone who was familiar with firearms and making parts for them. For example, notice the "ears" at the bottom, rear of the wood that extend slightly rearward over the receiver ring to keep the handguard from moving from side to side. I would hazard a guess as to some "village gunsmith" with primitive tools but who was used to repairing firearms.

A sliver of wood sent to the United States Forest Laboratory in Wisconsin would provide a clue as to the area where the wood came from.
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Look at what a nice, clean rifle this is. It doesn't look like a beater from the nether regions of Timbucthree.

I agree about the suggestion to try to figure out where the wood came from, that would probably tell the story. If there is some wood DNA lab and they could tell you...go for it.

I mean, look at how hard finding those rear handguard rings can be...it could have been anyone without access to parts.

Hey, also, someone couldn't figure out how to remove that Long Branch front sight adjusting screw to get the ring over the front sight...so in desperation they made this up.

Hmmm...note that the OP is from the west coast...lending credence to the Lever Arms thing bearhunter mentioned.
 
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I'll also say that this rifle is very nicely Canadian marked...I've seen few that had so many C Broad Arrows. All it would take would be a good forend and rear handguard ring and you'd have a pretty nice rifle.

If I had it would I leave it as it is? Tough one that.
 
I would think Farmer fred did this one as well, bubba's cousin . Its far too nice to have been there and back. changing it back now, is destroying a novelty.
 
Thanks for the comments folks. I received this rifle from the estate of an old friend of my Dad's who recently passed away. He was a great guy who served in the RCN. He was a submariner who served in Korea and in the Gulf of Tonkin in the early 60's. Didn't talk much about his experience.

This is my first Enfield and I honestly didn't notice the fore end for the first few days. A couple of the pictures show bedding of fore end (sorry they're so blurry) Rifle does not look like it has been out of it's wood for a long time.
It has a "V" electro-penciled into cocking piece and on top of trigger under wood. Does anyone know what that means?

The wood looks really nice. Butt stock I think is Walnut? fore end looks like Beech wood. Only marks on wood I could find are 33 on butt stock behind trigger guard and an R and 2 on either side of mid band on fore stock.
Should there be any marks anywhere on this rifle that could show it being issued to a different country than Canada?
Thanks for suggestion of sending sliver of wood to lab, never would of thought of that. If not too pricey, I will.
The hand guard "appears" to look as old as the rest of the wood.
If anyone can post images or direct me to where I could find them of a hand guard like this I would much appreciate.



Would like to thank PerversPepere again for posting my photos.
 
patrickosuave said:
Thanks for the comments folks. I received this rifle from the estate of an old friend of my Dad's who recently passed away. He was a great guy who served in the RCN. He was a submariner who served in Korea and in the Gulf of Tonkin in the early 60's. Didn't talk much about his experience.

This is my first Enfield and I honestly didn't notice the fore end for the first few days. A couple of the pictures show bedding of fore end (sorry they're so blurry) Rifle does not look like it has been out of it's wood for a long time.
It has a "V" electro-penciled into cocking piece and on top of trigger under wood. Does anyone know what that means?

The wood looks really nice. Butt stock I think is Walnut? fore end looks like Beech wood. Only marks on wood I could find are 33 on butt stock behind trigger guard and an R and 2 on either side of mid band on fore stock.
Should there be any marks anywhere on this rifle that could show it being issued to a different country than Canada?
Thanks for suggestion of sending sliver of wood to lab, never would of thought of that. If not too pricey, I will.
The hand guard "appears" to look as old as the rest of the wood.
If anyone can post images or direct me to where I could find them of a hand guard like this I would much appreciate.



Would like to thank PerversPepere again for posting my photos.
Click to expand...



PP is a great CGNer, I miss his posts.

Tale a look at the Lee Enfield sticky for pics of what they should look like.

Tradex, a banner sponsor has both of the upper fore end bits you need. Other members here, like cantom could probably help you out with the metal bands you will need.
 
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