Does Nobody Want Keltec RFB's Anymore??????

[emerson]

The bullpup design is attractive for offhand shooting and carrying in thick brush. Done that with an M305 22", no fun.

Who here shoots better than 2MOA from the standing position???? Ok, honestly, who shoots better than 4 MOA from the standing position??? A very few silouette shooters maybe... Ideal hunting rifle for my 1 armed hunting buddy is the RFB.

 

[ntm]

Who here shoots better than 2MOA from the standing position???? Ok, honestly, who shoots better than 4 MOA from the standing position??? A very few silouette shooters maybe... Ideal hunting rifle for my 1 armed hunting buddy is the RFB.

True, but it's like tolerance stacking.
You're inducing more and more error into the equation.

The true measure of a gun, be it a 1 or 3 moa or whatever, is revealed by doing a set of four, five round groups all on the same piece of paper. No discounting fliers or any of that bs.
That's being realistic with what a gun actually shoots.

 

[emerson]

True, but it's like tolerance stacking.
You're inducing more and more error into the equation.

The true measure of a gun, be it a 1 or 3 moa or whatever, is revealed by doing a set of four, five round groups all on the same piece of paper. No discounting fliers or any of that bs.
That's being realistic with what a gun actually shoots.

Of course, but the error added by shooting from an off hand position is usually several times larger than other sources. My buddy has 1 arm. He can safely control a bullpup with a pistol grip in his one hand. A 1 MOA Savage/Remington is of no use to him. His best case rest is a shooting pole stuck in the ground, often a rare treat in the brushy areas we hunt. Also complicated by the need to carry a rifle and a stick and employ both with ONE ARM. If almost any hunter shoots from the standing position without a rest the rifle isn't the limiting factor. Even off the bench, for some reason, my friends' rifles seem to shoot far better for me...... Shooters are the biggest single limitation to the average accuracy of most rifles.
It's like being well endowed down there; doesn't seem to translate to much but bragging rights for most.

 

[ntm]

Of course, but the error added by shooting from an off hand position is usually several times larger than other sources. My buddy has 1 arm. He can safely control a bullpup with a pistol grip in his one hand. A 1 MOA Savage/Remington is of no use to him. His best case rest is a shooting pole stuck in the ground, often a rare treat in the brushy areas we hunt. Also complicated by the need to carry a rifle and a stick and employ both with ONE ARM. If almost any hunter shoots from the standing position without a rest the rifle isn't the limiting factor. Even off the bench, for some reason, my friends' rifles seem to shoot far better for me...... Shooters are the biggest single limitation to the average accuracy of most rifles.
It's like being well endowed down there; doesn't seem to translate to much but bragging rights for most.

For your friend yes.
For the rest, if you can only hold say 4 moa of stability yourself and have a 1moa gun, you've got 5 moa of possible error.
Take that same 4 moa hold and a 3 moa gun and you have 7moa of possible error.
Depending on what you're shooting and how far, that may or may not be important to you.

 

[Gunnerlove]

Ok, honestly, who shoots better than 4 MOA from the standing position???

All the standing 50.10s I shot this summer could indicate I might be that guy. I can also shoot better than 4moa kneeling, sitting and prone.

A co-worker has an RFB and I took him out for a service rifle practice.
My impression was that it was a 3-4 moa rifle with winchester fmj ammo, which in reality is not bad when you start comparing them to the FAL.
Reliability or the lack thereof was my biggest concern FTF, FTE or double feed. Spin the wheel, you were getting at least one in a ten round match. 4 mags and no pattern to which mag was the problem, well other than all of them seemed to be cranky at one point.

He was replacing all the mags to see if that would improve reliability and if it can hit the >99.99% reliable mark it will be a neat niche gun. Until then I am unimpressed.
Interesting concept, but poor value.

 

[driller212]

Wow another thread where people bash something they have never shot... I am so surprised...

Stay classy CGN.

 

[Brian46]

The true measure of a gun, be it a 1 or 3 moa or whatever, is revealed by doing a set of four, five round groups all on the same piece of paper. No discounting fliers or any of that bs.
That's being realistic with what a gun actually shoots.

do you never get tired of

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/999226-Best-762-308-ar-type?p=9407069&viewfull=1#post9407069

I suggest anyone interested in the real accuracy of a RFB look at the above thread.

 

[Potshot21]

If I wasn't working hard to build up the down payment for a house, I would have one. The area I hunt has very dense undergrowth and carrying a full size rifle can be cumbersome at times. As for the supposed accuracy, I'm sure some handloading could improve groups, but for me the longest shots are about 250 yards on large targets, so even at its standard group size it would be more than enough.

After all people shooting Enfields that group 2-3" have shot more moose in Canada than other rifles combined!

 

[Brian46]

He was replacing all the mags to see if that would improve reliability and if it can hit the >99.99% reliable mark it will be a neat niche gun. Until then I am unimpressed.
Interesting concept, but poor value.

I have 5/20rnd thermolds and the 5/30rnd steel mags that CTS on here was selling, both are 100% and I have not had one single FTF,FTE or double feed, with the gas system adjusted properly it has worked flawlessly

 

[daniel_250r]

The type 97 is way better

 

[Brian46]

The type 97 is way better

obviously, you can almost buy 3 for the price of an RFB

 

[pilot2001]

Not super accurate. Not great magazine availability.

I think people were expecting a 1 MOA gun and were dissapointed when they didn't get that. Some of the early versions also had complaints about their gas systems.

I dunno. I'm still tempted. They are incredibly tiny rifles.

poor accuracy was why I never bought one

 

[Brian46]

1MOA is poor?

 

[emerson]

All the standing 50.10s I shot this summer could indicate I might be that guy. I can also shoot better than 4moa kneeling, sitting and prone.

You sir, are the notable exception, probably joined mostly by the other shooters you share the line with;-)

 

[cr5]

I have both RFB & KSG.....neither is a range gun...hunting, hunting, hunting; go in the bush with either one and you'll quickly see the merit in both; after a day out you can break it down and have it cleaned in five min. The plastic won't break, don't worry.

^^^^ This.

I have both as well and they are both great. My RFB is for sale but only because I've been spending way too much money lately and need cash.
Comments about poor accuracy are stupid. Mine will shoot 1.5 moa with more than one of my handloads. It isn't a sniper rifle and was never advertised as one so if you think that just because it costs over $2000 you need to pull your head out of your sphincter.
I have 7 mags and all feed perfectly. I have over 500 rounds through it and not one failure other than when the gas setting was wrong after switching to a different type of ammo.
I know I will regret selling it and will miss it when it's gone

 

[bacon1337]

cr5 and brian46 owns one, they can chime in, I don't think much of them. They are fairly expensive, picky on mags(either the imperial or metric fal mags need some work I don't remember), the gas system needs to be tuned to run properly, and it's not that accurate, and nobody has a really high mileage rfb to demonstrate the long term durability of the rifle. Any one of those by itself is not really a deal breaker, but all of them put together for me is.

1MOA is poor?

1 moa is nothing special. I don't know what the best you got was, but most of my readings have led me to believe most rfbs are 1.5 moa on their best day(more than accurate enough for hunting applications). Seeing that hk417s, scar 17s, and kac sr25s have demonstrated sub moa capability I have to say yes 1 moa is no longer such a wowsauce number. 1.5 even less so.

 

[Brian46]

1 moa is nothing special. I don't know what the best you got was, but most of my readings have led me to believe most rfbs are 1.5 moa on their best day(more than accurate enough for hunting applications). Seeing that hk417s, scar 17s, and kac sr25s have demonstrated sub moa capability I have to say yes 1 moa is no longer such a wowsauce number. 1.5 even less so.

not many NR semi auto 308's out there doing much better in the accuracy department than the RFB with factory ammo, not that I have seen anyways.

 

[cr5]

1 moa is nothing special. I don't know what the best you got was, but most of my readings have led me to believe most rfbs are 1.5 moa on their best day(more than accurate enough for hunting applications). Seeing that hk417s, scar 17s, and kac sr25s have demonstrated sub moa capability I have to say yes 1 moa is no longer such a wowsauce number. 1.5 even less so.

How do you like those rifles out in the bush? Oh that's right you can only shoot holes in paper with those. For me, if I'm gonna spend the coin to shoot 308 I want to be able to use it for something other than making a bigger hole in a piece of paper.
Lets compare to the XCR-M which is the closest real competition to it and gets the same accuracy and even the new Fammas which I doubt will do any better either since my Swiss classic green was a disappointment in the accuracy department.
So similar rifles in the 308 non restricted class for similar prices produce similar accuracy yet the RFB is the one everyone hates on? Based on what? A bad rep from a sh!t pistol they made a few years ago? Worst part is most of the haters have never even held one and are just sheep regurgitating what they read somewhere.
If you want a sniper rifle buy a bolt action and don't look back. Black rifles are not sniper rifles unless you go with a high end AR platform.
If it isn't what your looking for then don't buy one but don't say it's junk because you don't want one or can't afford one and are reaching for an excuse not to buy one.
I would have paid $3000 for mine and wish I didn't have to sell it.

 

[Brian46]

I played around with the XCR M before buying the RFB, who is getting 1MOA with it? I tried a few different kinds of ammo and it wasn't happening

 

[Dietz]

Ok, honestly, who shoots better than 4 MOA from the standing position???

Other people and me.

You have to understand that some of us do everything in life the way we do because we strike to be the best and most proficient individual we possibly can.