A revolutionary concept in rifles!

358 BLR "In my opinion, selling rifles without some sort of sights is like selling cars without steering columns - pretty much freakin useless until you spend more money on it."




Ding* Ding* Ding* that's the idea.$$$$$
Its cheaper for the gun co. To manufacture rifles without sights and it insures that you buy rings, bases, scopes which they may just have a stake in.
Its like an oil company that has shares in a car company who's number one marketed vehicle gets 12km/gallon
 
I completely agree with the OP on iron sights. Selling entry level firearms and general purpose rifles without them feels kind of insulting to me, since it's so obviously a money racket. I'm looking at euro made bolt actions specifically because they offer irons.

Personally, I wonder how much sightless rifles keep younger (and often, poorer) shooters from getting into hunting and shooting sports. Go convince a younger person to get involved in our sport, then tell him he'll need to scrape together a grand for a rifle, then another grand just so he can know where he's shooting it. That usually ends up in a stop drop, right there, I've seen it happen.

I keep hearing how iron's are next to useless and you need a top-shelf Leupold to hit anything beyond 50 yards. I don't buy it. I've got one eye (and that ones nearsighted) and last time I was on a CF range I had no problem hitting The Cut-Out Kraut at 300 with irons.
 
Mumbles Marble Mouth said:
Its a money grab for the gun manufacturers and the businesses I tell yea. Why would gun manufactures make more rifles with irons when they can make you spend more money on having to buy a set of rings and a scope to make your gun useful. What gun company owns Burris? Beretta. What gun company owns Bushnell? Browning.

I have a CZ 550 LUX. Beautiful rifle with control feed and hare trigger. (Which the 557 is push feed with an adjustable trigger.) Even though I put a compact scope on it, I like the extra insurance that if the scope ####s up, I can just take it off and keep hunting. Sometimes I pull the scope off just to practice with the iron sights. The CZ 550 is a 19mm dovetail and the scope rings go back on in the notch so they don't loose zero from you taking it off. Great set up just can be a little hard to find rings for them.
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Warne makes QD rings specifically for the CZ 550 ( includes a little tab for the CZ notch too! :) ). Western Gun parts sells Warne - Very pricey, Brownells carries them at a much more reasonable price.
 
358 BLR said:
Warne makes QD rings specifically for the CZ 550 ( includes a little tab for the CZ notch too! :) ). Western Gun parts sells Warne - Very pricey, Brownells carries them at a much more reasonable price.
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I have had those on my CZ550FS 9.3 for a couple years and they are working out very well for me, quick and easy to detach and to re-attach..
 
Kevan said:
I have had those on my CZ550FS 9.3 for a couple years and they are working out very well for me, quick and easy to detach and to re-attach..
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I have them for my current CZ 550 Med Lux in 9.3 and I think they are the cat's meow. I also put a fiber optic post on the front - getting old and a fiber optic post makes a big
difference - and I don't mind using the irons at all. I'm actually pretty good out to 200 yards (off the bench anyway).
One thing about the Warne rings, is that it seems hard to find a retailer that carries them. Cabela's in the U.S. does, but the Edmonton Cabela's doesn't.
 
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Not meaning to side-track your fine thread, but I wonder if those same rings will fit the older 602 ?
I think mine is about an '80s vintage 602 375 with the factory BRNO 1-piece base.
 
I just think most people have a dislike for iron sights because you all just cant shoot that well with them..... yep I just said that and I'm slowly walking out of the room facing all of you.......almost to the door........... and outta here
 
Most people buying these cheap guns dont care about irons.

They always rush to the boards to tell all about how the got a brand new "thirty ought six" with a "bore sighted" scope and they are "GOOD TO GO!!!!!!" deer/moose/bear/jackalope hunting at first light tomorrow morning.

They just dont care.

The last rifle I bought came with irons. I promptly scoped it and will likely never use the irons. I always bring a backup rifle with me on a hunt lasting more than a day (usually on day hunts as well, for that matter) so even if the scope failed I'd have another gun to use.

And yes, I can use irons. Two of my favourite guns will never be scoped.
 
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So much fail with this.

There are _lots_ of packages for 500-600 that come with scope included. My first rifle was one of such deals. Down the road I upgraded the scope to a Leupold, but even with the cheap one offered I was getting 1-1.3 moa groups.
Stores will also offer scopes for discounted prices when you buy the rifle from them.

Back on topic: yawwnnn. I'll take a push feed with a quality scope over a CRF with iron sights any day. I have a CRF rifle and don't particularly care for the action.


Doryman said:
I completely agree with the OP on iron sights. Selling entry level firearms and general purpose rifles without them feels kind of insulting to me, since it's so obviously a money racket. I'm looking at euro made bolt actions specifically because they offer irons.

Personally, I wonder how much sightless rifles keep younger (and often, poorer) shooters from getting into hunting and shooting sports. Go convince a younger person to get involved in our sport, then tell him he'll need to scrape together a grand for a rifle, then another grand just so he can know where he's shooting it. That usually ends up in a stop drop, right there, I've seen it happen.

I keep hearing how iron's are next to useless and you need a top-shelf Leupold to hit anything beyond 50 yards. I don't buy it. I've got one eye (and that ones nearsighted) and last time I was on a CF range I had no problem hitting The Cut-Out Kraut at 300 with irons.
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wicket said:
I just think most people have a dislike for iron sights because you all just cant shoot that well with them..... yep I just said that and I'm slowly walking out of the room facing all of you.......almost to the door........... and outta here
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Lol! No need to hide as I suspect your right about some folks. ;)

The lack of marksmanship I have seen some folks display at the range over the years... Tragic.
 
Calum said:
Lol! No need to hide as I suspect your right about some folks. ;)

The lack of marksmanship I have seen some folks display at the range over the years... Tragic.
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Even more tragic is the display of abismal marksmanship that I have observed on game... And having to follow-up and clean-up the mess afterward.
 
hoytcanon said:
Even more tragic is the display of abismal marksmanship that I have observed on game... And having to follow-up and clean-up the mess afterward.
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I sometimes think mandatory live action qualification on moving targets like done with hunters in Sweden would be a good idea in Canada... Sometimes.

The once a year dust off the rifle and go hunt just isn't enough practice for some folks.
 
bearkilr said:
Open sights are largely a Euro thing. Generally you can get Steyr, Sako, Tikka, Blaser, Sauer, etc. with open sights in every available caliber, it's just that the NA distributors get smooth barrel ones as that's what sells.
I agree though, I like open sights so long as you have a quality QD mount to go along with them.
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Yup.....open sights, short barrels, and round nose bullets. It's too bad that their actions are so complicated.
Ivor
 
Calum said:
I sometimes think mandatory live action qualification on moving targets like done with hunters in Sweden would be a good idea in Canada... Sometimes.

The once a year dust off the rifle and go hunt just isn't enough practice for some folks.
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The good ole' boys around here don't even sight in before season... Some haven't in years... Some have made multiple poor hits and/or misses and STILL have not checked their firearm... In my estimation that is plain old laziness, stupidity and down right unethical.
 
Bowie said:
Western Gun Parts stocks Warne.
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Western Gun Parts is a distributor and even though they will sell to the general public, they will inflate their prices as to not undercut any of the
retailers that they supply. Compare their prices with those of a retailer and you will see what I mean. But as a last resort it is good to have them
around; I've gotten parts out of WGP that I couldn't even find in the States.
 
domyalex said:
So much fail with this.

There are _lots_ of packages for 500-600 that come with scope included. My first rifle was one of such deals. Down the road I upgraded the scope to a Leupold, but even with the cheap one offered I was getting 1-1.3 moa groups.
Stores will also offer scopes for discounted prices when you buy the rifle from them.

Back on topic: yawwnnn. I'll take a push feed with a quality scope over a CRF with iron sights any day. I have a CRF rifle and don't particularly care for the action.
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Sorry my friend the fail is all yours.

A $600 combo comes with a piece of crap scope I wouldn't trust 1 day in the woods with me!

This is my point.

A good rifle with irons should be cheaper, and will serve a new hunter much better than some crappy scope, that(as you admit) needs to be replaced pretty quick.
 
I'm indifferent towards irons. I can shoot well enough with them, but I shoot better with a red dot or a magnified scope. But they are nice to have in the event something goes wrong. I just want one of these in 6.5x55, and I want it soon! :)
 
hoytcanon said:
The good ole' boys around here don't even sight in before season... Some haven't in years... Some have made multiple poor hits and/or misses and STILL have not checked their firearm... In my estimation that is plain old laziness, stupidity and down right unethical.
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I totally agree with you. We have the same sort out here.

I once ran into a guy at the range complaining about the ammo, the rifle the phase of the moon and what his neighbours dog ate as to the reasons he couldn't hit a deer at 50 yards with his new 7mm mag, then the truth came out...bore sighted at the shop, package scope deal, never tried at the range before the hunt.

I tried his rifle and with each pull of the trigger the scope hairs moved out of true with the recoil...what ammo should I buy? He asked.

/facepalm

Anyway... the gong show continues.
 
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