Does Nobody Want Keltec RFB's Anymore??????

I recently got an RFB and tested with 147 grain PMC FMJ ammo. I wasn't really testing for accuracy at the moment as I was in the process of just sighting in my Vortex SPARC. I will probably wind up putting a Trijicon AccuPoint on it (1-4x) in a few months. I wasn't too impressed with how it operated with that ammo, but I would probably look at lubrication as a factor. After getting the bolt to lock back on the magazine, the next test was getting it to cycle 5 rounds properly. I was having a lot of problems with this. Luckily someone else at the range had their maintenance kit with them, so I field stripped the rifle and put lube on various components. I hadn't really done anything to the gun when I bought it, so I probably should have lubed it up.

After this, it was shooting well. I do intend to put together some 168 grain Sierra Match King ammo to try out in this and in my Tikka. As long as I can keep this rifle very reliable, I can be in my happy place... :D
 
bacon1337 said:
Not to be a ####, but most owners don't know what they are on about and they wouldn't be able to tell the performance difference between the rfb and fn scar 17 if it slapped them across the face. And I assure you, there is a performance difference, when it comes to how well one runs over the long run vs the other.

A few people like cr5 have a clear defined goal and is perfectly honest about the limitations of his rifles. I have met more than one rfb owner that have lost their sh*t on me if I said even one thing that was not nice about their beloved rifle. Granted this is a trait that is not exclusive to rfb owners, plenty of other owners of different guns get butthurt over the smallest pointed flaws of their rifle. But my point is the rfb while loved by its owners definitely has its shortcomings, and the logical fans of it like cr5 or brian 46 will agree with me while it has its merits from the legal perspective, it is far from the best 308 semi in the world.

If you love yours, wonderful. But if you want to claim none can beat it, i will be happy to prove you wrong. P.S. an XCR M is not really that high a bar to surpass. Any XCR for that matter. But that's another topic for another time
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You must have my posts mixed up with someone elses... I don't see where I said it was the best .308 or anything of the sort or say none can beat it. Nor do I pretend it be anything it isn't. You need to re-read my two posts as they are quite logical. I simply made the point that a person's single bad experience does not make it so for all others nor does it automatically disqualify their opinions or the quality of their particular firearms.
There are good and bad in all platforms.. it's pretty much a ford vs chevy debate but neither means the other should be discarded.

I like my RFB but it is far from my favorite rifle. That being said, it doesn't make it a piece a crap either nor does it make me "full of sh*t" ....a generality previously suggested by Beltfed of all RFB owners.
 
Boomer686 said:
As far as being genuine .. I am. My experience with my RFB has been positive. It shoots fine for me and I genuinely like it for what it is. Do I hold it to the same level of performance as my target guns? Certainly not (my classic green did not shoot to that level either) but they are by no means garbage or close to it. Does that mean all RFB's are perfect? No but there is no platform out there that is.. or is there?
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Finally, someone else that agrees the Swiss Arms Classic is not the be all end all of non restricted semi auto's ;)
I found mine to be a beautifully built rifle that I couldn't find a part on that I thought would break but as for accuracy it was far from what I was looking for or what it is hyped up to be. If you hold it just right and exactly the same every time it could shoot "decent" groups.

Same with the RFB, it is no DMR or sniper rifle by any stretch of the imagination but it was never designed or marketed to be. It shoots like a battle rifle and is reliable when set up correctly. People like to say that having to change gas settings when you change ammo is a pain in the ass but really, how many times a day do you switch ammo once you figure out what a rifle likes? Mine has shot 90% S&B 147gr FMJ and it does it well (around 3-4MOA depending how I'm shooting that day) it has a great trigger which also happens to be better than any other bullpup I've shot and better than a few regular rifles. I didn't have any problem sourcing mags for mine when I bought it but it seems they have become more difficult lately.
If I could own anything and take it in the bush I would have an AR-10 platform rifle, probably an LMT as they are my favorite so far based on what I've read (never shot one but almost bought one a few months ago) but they are too much money for me to have tied up in a restricted firearm.
From the choices available it's the RFB or the XCR-M, I've shot both and I like them both for different things. With my RFB standing freehand I can hit the 200yd gong more consistently than I can with the XCR-M but the XCR-M is much easier to shoot off a bench and I really like how easy it is to take down for cleaning. The RFB is also really easy to take down but it's hard to compete with simply pushing a lever and having it pop open.
I would be happy with either one.

People are talking about the Famae 542 but has anyone other than TVPP shot one? Has anyone shot one beyond 50 yards? If it's anything like my Swiss Arms and has a 5 MOA point of impact shift depending how you support it I'll pass thank you very much.

In the end it's up to everyone to make up their own mind and buy what they decide they want. It doesn't matter if I like it as long as you like what you own. Coming on here and spouting off about what a piece of crap something is every time someone mentions it doesn't do anyone any good and soon your opinion is dismissed as garbage and you just start annoying everyone (a couple names come to mind but one of them has been pretty quiet lately, he must be on timeout).

So as I've offered before anyone in the Edmonton area is welcome to shoot me a PM and if we can line up schedules we can head out to the range (mine or yours) and you can try the RFB out. I also have a few other fun toys you are welcome to try. If you want to shoot more than a magazine or two bring your own ammo and just so you know, if you bring Norinco or MFS I won't let you put that through my rifles.

Some of you may notice that my RFB is up for sale. This has nothing to do with the rifle or me not being happy with it, I just need some money and it's one that I think I can live without (maybe), I am secretly hoping it doesn't sell (I tell the wife I'm trying ;) ) and I can just work more overtime to get this stupid line of credit paid off. The couple guys that have offered me numbers I didn't like found out that I'm not desperate and won't give it away.

So come shoot it and make up your own mind.
They are great rifles and once you understand the gas system they are very easy to adjust and make run reliably.
Everyone I've let shoot it so far has loved it and can't believe how smooth it shoots for such a small 308.

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I like Kel-Tec :D

Edit,
Forgot to mention, to the OP, yes lots of people want the RFB, but most are too cheap to pay the money. The reason you are starting to see them in the stores now is that supply has finally gotten close to demand.
Personally I would have paid $3000 for this rifle. I have enjoyed every outing I've had with it and it has never jammed up. I have only had failures when I didn't give it enough gas (I like to run as little as possible and sometimes it not enough) but one or two clicks in on the adjuster and it's good the rest of the day. I've never needed to flip it upside down or remove the mag and stick my fingers in to clear it. Just give it more gas, cycle the charge handle and off we go.
 
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Boomer686 said:
You must have my posts mixed up with someone elses... I don't see where I said it was the best .308 or anything of the sort or say none can beat it. Nor do I pretend it be anything it isn't. You need to re-read my two posts as they are quite logical. I simply made the point that a person's single bad experience does not make it so for all others nor does it automatically disqualify their opinions or the quality of their particular firearms.
There are good and bad in all platforms.. it's pretty much a ford vs chevy debate but neither means the other should be discarded.

I like my RFB but it is far from my favorite rifle. That being said, it doesn't make it a piece a crap either nor does it make me "full of sh*t" ....a generality previously suggested by Beltfed of all RFB owners.
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Sorry the only response that was directly meant for you, was the statement that since so many owners have nice things to say it must be good. I disagree, a lot of owners of any firearm invest their ego and emotion in their gun and to them nothing touches their gun. The rest was a generalized statement. I should have clarified, my mistake.
 
cheier said:
I recently got an RFB and tested with 147 grain PMC FMJ ammo. I wasn't really testing for accuracy at the moment as I was in the process of just sighting in my Vortex SPARC. I will probably wind up putting a Trijicon AccuPoint on it (1-4x) in a few months. I wasn't too impressed with how it operated with that ammo, but I would probably look at lubrication as a factor. After getting the bolt to lock back on the magazine, the next test was getting it to cycle 5 rounds properly. I was having a lot of problems with this. Luckily someone else at the range had their maintenance kit with them, so I field stripped the rifle and put lube on various components. I hadn't really done anything to the gun when I bought it, so I probably should have lubed it up.

After this, it was shooting well. I do intend to put together some 168 grain Sierra Match King ammo to try out in this and in my Tikka. As long as I can keep this rifle very reliable, I can be in my happy place... :D
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Tips for ammo, stay away from soft tips, try diffrent type, even in your the same weight. Every ammi has a optimal gas setting, on my gen one I can run most ammo on my the sam setting but its softer fine tune.

If your having failure to feed, try thermold mags. If your haviny failure to extract, call kel tec, that's really rare unless the empty casing is ramming in the guide for the ejector shute or the bolt is dropping the empty and its jamming inside, that could be over gassing.

99.9 % of rfb problem are mag related and gas regulations related.......

....on that note reading other post from the usual rfb bashing suspect, even do I caught last kont my fourt deer with my rfb I will be trowing it away as it is a miserable piece of menure that doesn't deserve to be sold.... sorry mod's I'm just sick of not being able to read a dam rfb tread with out reading the same clueless bull crap from the same guys! This seems to be getting out of hand like the xcr loctite joke! Ok you don't like the rfb ( insert 2-3 guys name here) yes we get it, all cgn knows it! You might as well just go and copy paste from your last rfb bashing tread from now on cause it all seems rewrites. That or get over it and stop acting like the rfb is the first rifle to have minor issues in there infancy!
 
Boomer686 said:
The owners of these model guns / platforms say they are good guns but I guess they are all full of sh*t
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No, just the ones claiming insane levels of repeated accuracy with these things.

Boomer686 said:
Obviously by gauging the repeat posts you are making there is no changing your mind. If you have an issue with an RFB for whatever reason then so be it but your *opinion* should in no way be taken as blanket fact that all are the same. If the RFB doesn't suit you then so be it.
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I'd love to have my mind changed on this rifle (and a lot of others). I don't have any emotional attachment to guns. They are tools. Some work better than others, and some less so. I realize my experience was what it was - one outing with one rifle out of many, shooting four different types of ammo. One guy's take on the platform in general. Take it for what it's worth.

Boomer686 said:
As far as being genuine .. I am. My experience with my RFB has been positive. It shoots fine for me and I genuinely like it for what it is.
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Yeah, I gather that...I was not referring to you in my post.
 
Damm belt fed if you be closer I'd plan a range trip with you , I'd bring the rfb the mags and the ammo just so you stop using that one short range session as a standard.

Its not a .75-1.25 moa gun, its a 1.5-2.5 moa gun (like most semi auto and almost all non restricted one's) and mag change are a bit slower cause its a bullpup. That's the bottom line, if you need a 1 moa all day gun go buy one part from that its a good gun! What are runs all ar mag flawlessly? Not my dd, the one that run runs 100%, but that's the same with my rfb.... anyway....
 
rally guy said:
Damm belt fed if you be closer I'd plan a range trip with you , I'd bring the rfb the mags and the ammo just so you stop using that one short range session as a standard.
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Yeah, I've said it before ,and it bears worth repeating: I totally concede that one range trip was not indicative of the true nature of the type (or even that particular rifle, to be fair).

rally guy said:
Its not a .75-1.25 moa gun, its a 1.5-2.5 moa gun (like most semi auto and almost all non restricted one's)
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Well whatever it is, it is. I'll shut up about group sizes now.
 
I should add about the Gen1 Vs Gen2 gas system. The gen2 gas system is easier and cheaper for them to produce. It offers more settings. Personally I have no issues with less settings and actually prefer the Gen1 because of this. The only disadvantage is that there are some auto adjust gas plugs being tested in the US. Unfortunately they are only for the gen2 or I would have one.

A couple things about reliability. Check out the lube thread. Couple soakings with G96 and some 0w40 synthetic diesel oil on the rails and bolt area. No break in needed. Set the gas and you're good to go. A lot of issues can be avoided by doing this. Also metric FAL mags only. I have the DSA metal mags. So far so good.

One issue when reloading after firing through a RFB. You will need a small base resizer or those rounds will jam in an AR10. I suspect the 7.62 chambering along with non locking bolt allow for the expansion to great this issue.

The bolt is a tilting block similar to the SVT40, FN FAL, VZ58 and Remington 870. The only real difference is the off set short piston gas system and double extractors. The bases otherwise are very simple and extremely tested. The double extractor is the only area I could see potentially causing a malfunction if something goes wrong. It's not made to mil spec but the heart of the rifle is tried and true for reliability.

I'll put a scope back on later for more ammo testing. But for now I have a M21 optic from my Tavor on the RFB. I really like this combo. 1 moa centre, 65moa outer circle like the Eotech. Quick release and doesn't interfere with the charging handle. See accuracy testing thread a few years ago on setting up the Burris Pepre QR mount so it doesn't interfere with the charging handle.

I bought this rifle with the idea of fun non restricted plinker and eventually for hunting in slash or forested areas where the shots are more likely to be off hand and closer.

One note on accuracy. Like the Tavor there is a fairly violent release when the trigger let's go. With the short length and many traditional holds this will cause a shift in your POA and your POI right as you fire. You can close your groups up a bit by holding the rifle with more contact than a traditional rifle. Off hand shooting mitigates this as you are holding the rifle firmly and with more contact points. The actual total accuracy for some is better off hand than benched because of this factor.

The negatives for accuracy are the non locking action, the barrel being the spine of the rifle, the barrel being CL along with not free floated and the short stroke piston slamming the carrier while off to the one side doesn't aid in accuracy. The only reason the accuracy of this rifle isn't trully horrible is due to the fairly thick and short barrel. I will say however that using the barrel as the spine the way they did seems to get rid of POI changes experienced with rifles like the Swiss.

I like the RFB for all the reasons everyone else does. But that being said if the AR10 was non restricted I would be using one of those. I greatly prefer the AR10 design and accuracy. The OAL and key features of the RFB keep me from selling it. The pure size difference is amazing between the RFB and a traditional 30 cal semi.

I'm generally not a Kel-tec fan. But I have to give them credit for the RFB. It's not the perfect rifle but it's got a lot going for it. What they did with extremely simplistic design elements was fairly amazing.

Direct competition for this rifle is the XCR-M and the Famae/Sig 542. Both of which also have their pluses and negatives.

What would be interesting would be to see the RFB with a 20" SS barrel. At that point you could probably get a true 1moa rifle or a bit less. Alternatively a XCR-M with a SS match barrel and sh1t canning the barrel retention system they have right now. I would most likely buy a XCR-M tomorrow if it came like that.

The 542. Well I saw a Famae SMG the other day and it's not the quality of the Swiss. As for accuracy if they are going CL barrels then I don't expect it to be any better than the others. These rifles are in the FN FAL, SVT40 and M14 class of accuracy out of the box. Battle rifle accuracy.
 
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Non-restricted 308 semi under 30"OAL..... Considering
the "$ value" that sits unmoving in most of the posters'
gunsafes cost vs usefulness isn't as big a deal as many
make it out to be. Add the typical amount many spend to
drive a "newer" vehicle and the $ concerns ring false
for most. Is the XCR-M more accurate than the RFB or
M305??
 
Epoxy7 said:
I should add about the Gen1 Vs Gen2 gas system. The gen2 gas system is easier and cheaper for them to produce. It offers more settings. Personally I have no issues with less settings and actually prefer the Gen1 because of this. The only disadvantage is that there are some auto adjust gas plugs being tested in the US. Unfortunately they are only for the gen2 or I would have one.
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Where have you seen the auto adjust gas plug? I'd be into testing one of those out.
 
Boomer686 said:
I have both & enjoy them both. XCR-M is very front heavy. RFB is more balanced and compact but harder to shoot benched. Both shoot well. You would be wise to upgrade the OEM mag on the XCR-M with a magpul. Once you learn the platforms you will be pleasantly surprised.
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I find that holding the hand guard with the support hand, and then resting your support hand on a bag was a very consistent way to shoot the RFB off a bench.
 
rally guy said:
What for you are selling it :p? Unless you cam to your sense?

Ktog forum
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I'm fairly firm on my price and the people that have offered me money so far seem to expect me to give it away. I only want to sell it to pay down some debt so it won't hurt my feelings to keep it. People don't seem to take into consideration the cost of the extras I'm including.
 
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