Just bought some old reloading equipment, what's the shelf life on smokeless powder?

Seven65

Seven65

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Hey guys,

I just bought my first press, a Lyman Spartan from the late 60s or early 70s that I'm going to restore. I bough t it in a package deal with a bunch of dies, primers, bullets etc. There are a couple open containers of powder, they are supposedly about 20 years old. Any idea if it could still be good?
 
If they were stored away from moisture they should still be good.

However, consider that many powder recipies have changed over the years, there might be a significant difference between 60s era powder and today's powder. From the 80s on differences should be a bit more minimal, but it probably wouldn't hurt to call the manufacturer and inquire.
 
Stored in a cool location, your powder should be fine.
You stated open containers of powder. What concerns me there, is that the powder is actually in the original containers. If you can ascertain that the powder is actually what it is stated to be, then have no fears about its age. I use powders much older than I am presuming yours to be, with no problems, whatsoever.
In spite of what you hear, powders with the same designation are the same now, as they ever were, with the possible exception of a very slight change, one way or the other, from one lot number to another.
Most of the north American loading charts show less powder now, than they did in the 1950s, or even 1960s for a given load, and to add to the confusion, they state the same velocity, even with less powder.
But this is a myth.
If a modern loading book shows less powder than one in 1950-60, then it will have less velocity than does the heavier charge shown in the 50-60 chart.
 
H4831 said:
You stated open containers of powder. What concerns me there, is that the powder is actually in the original containers. If you can ascertain that the powder is actually what it is stated to be, then have no fears about its age. I use powders much older than I am presuming yours to be, with no problems, whatsoever.
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What he said.

Powder is what, $35 a pound? You got a deal on the gear, be happy. I would never use powder I was not 100% sure of. Life's too short, eyes are limited and rifles are dear. Use it for fertilizer and spring for new.

My two bits.
 
I wouldn't be to worried about the powder being in wrong cans. I have seen, bought and used dozens of cans of powder that were opened. Some did have different powder in them for sure, but they were well marked with what the contents were. Everything from sticky tape markers to heavy felt pens. Mind you, it's your powder and your choice. If there are several part cans of the same powder (marked the same) mix them together and blend them as one lot. This will give you consistent velocities and pressures.

New powder, still has issues from lot to lot but not nearly as bad as the older powders used to have.

This is what you need to look for.

Sweating, there will always be a very acidic smell to go along with this condition. Sometimes the fluid will soak through some of the old cardboard cans.

Swelling of the can's sides.

Rusting on the inside of the lid or container sides.

Clumping of powder. This happens just before it starts to sweat.

DO NOT OPEN THE TIN AND SNIFF THE FUMES. IT CAN BE DANGEROUS. If it is going bad, the smell will be readily evident.

Pour out some of the powder an look for a rusty appearance on the kernels. This will happen to Ball and Extruded powders. It happens when the powders have been stored in high heat conditions for to long.

Some people say freezing causes powders to lose their efficiency, others store their powder in the chest freezer to maintain a consistent temperature. I just bought some from a fellow that had two ea, seven pound boxes of a powder I like a lot, H414sl10. This is a very consistent ball powder that is slightly slower than W760. It was one of the early all temperature powders and only available as surplus from the commercial loaders over runs. This powder was originally purchased close to 25 years ago and had been stored in a freezer for most of that time. It's fine. No different than another batch that is much newer.

I also had a batch of powder from the same source but was a Bofor's powder similar to 4350. It was much newer but only lasted for about five years before it started clumping and sweating. It was sold under the name N-160. To bad, it was great powder while it was good, especially in mid size cartridges.

If your powder has gone bad, it will be quite obvious.

I would be far more concerned with old primers than powder.

One other issue with old powder, it can be either more powerful or less powerful than today's equivalents under the same name and brand.

You will need reloading manuals from similar periods to make up safe loads. Do not use those old recipes for newly manufactured powders. There can be some disappointments to say the least.

If your powder is 15 years old or less, just go ahead and use the new manuals.

Some of the older powders, like a can of HS6 I came across are not even mentioned in new manuals. In his case H450 recipes from the early seventies are appropriate.
 
Seven65 said:
Hey guys,

I just bought my first press, a Lyman Spartan from the late 60s or early 70s that I'm going to restore. I bough t it in a package deal with a bunch of dies, primers, bullets etc. There are a couple open containers of powder, they are supposedly about 20 years old. Any idea if it could still be good?
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Nothing wrong with the hardware but get rid of the Powder. Not worth ruining a Gun or worse with unknown powder just to safe a few Bucks. Been there done that and was not funny.
 
I still do the bulk of my reloading on a Lyman Spartan bought used by my father when I was a boy, save for the pistol stuff that gets shot a lot.

About the only thing I can't do with it is use the RCBS primer pocket swage just given me because the ejector won't fit due to ram/frame clearance.

Good little press.

Used powder from an untrusted source is something I stay away from as well. And I'm still using up some old stuff from 10-20 years ago. I did chuck some ancient IMR 4198 (tri-colour can with a tiny spout) because it was giving me poor ignition and squibs in my 45-70, which were older reloads of mine as well.
 
"...Unless it was stored at high temp..." Irrelevant. Extremes of temperature and, more immportant, humidity matter.
"...Some did have different powder..." That is highly dangerous if the quatities of each are close to the same. It's usually best to pitch old open cans.
 
sunray said:
"...Unless it was stored at high temp..." Irrelevant. Extremes of temperature and, more immportant, humidity matter.
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Well, propellant degeneration results from slow chemical changes. Cold will not promote such reactions and, all other things being equal, propellant can therefore be exposed to extreme cold without damage. High temperatures on the other hand will speed up those chemical reactions and modern propellant cannot therefore withstand prolonged heat without breaking down. The rate of breakdown, all other things being equal, will be directly related to how hot it is. Ideal, of course, is cool and dry.
 
I bought it off my boss, he is honest methodical and has a good memory, I'm sure they are all in their original boxes but I will as him to double check.

The press had some rust on it so moisture may have gotten to the powder even though it's sealed. I'll take a look at it and look for signs of it going bad as you all have mentioned.

If I start loading it I will load according to the old books that came with the package and download it 10% from there, all in all I got a good deal so if I have any dowbts I'll toss it.

If I do end up throwing it out, how do I properly dispose of it?

Also big bonus: Got to work today and my boss says "hey I forgot to give you this, it's pretty handy for cleaning brass" and gives me an original Thumler's Tumbler. I was pretty thrilled.
All together I got the Lyman press with three primer tubes (people seem to lose them), powder measure, scale, case trimmer, 9 or 10 dies, 400 primers, half dozen or so cases of bullets, measuring equipment, a couple brushes, a half dozen books including the original manual, 4 cans of powder (may or may not be good) and the tumbler for $150. Pretty happy about it. He was like "Do you think that's too much?" "No, no, it's really not"
 
Smokeless powder is chock full of nitrogen and makes a good fertilizer. Do not spread it too thickly as like normal fertilizers it can burn plants. Or you could lay it out in a back alley on a wet day and burn it. Long thin lines lit at the downwind end vice one big pile. It will burn quite nicely and not explode.

Good bargain!
 
Seven65 said:
All together I got the Lyman press with three primer tubes (people seem to lose them), powder measure, scale, case trimmer, 9 or 10 dies, 400 primers, half dozen or so cases of bullets, measuring equipment, a couple brushes, a half dozen books including the original manual, 4 cans of powder (may or may not be good) and the tumbler for $150.
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Pat yourself on the back . . . $150 would not have gone far if you had tried to buy all that stuff new. Good score!
 
If the powder containers are in good condition, and the powder isn't clumped up or rusty, I'd have no problem using it.
But, I resized some cases last week without wearing safety glasses, livin' on the edge.
Use your judgement, as your judgement is pretty important in reloading. Maybe set them aside until you know what powders are supposed to look and smell like?

Give the ram of the press a good going over with some steel wool to remove the rust. Lube up with just about anything. I collect the last dribbles from the oil jugs from oil changes and use that.
If there is slop in the ram, it can be easily replaced: http://www.ch4d.com/equipment/presses/412090

And for $150? A bottle in his stocking might not be out of order.
 
Rory McCanuck said:
Maybe set them aside until you know what powders are supposed to look and smell like?
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That's a really good idea.

Rory McCanuck said:
Give the ram of the press a good going over with some steel wool to remove the rust. Lube up with just about anything. I collect the last dribbles from the oil jugs from oil changes and use that.
If there is slop in the ram, it can be easily replaced: http://www.ch4d.com/equipment/presses/412090
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It pulls really nicely and is very smooth, its just the exterior rust. I'm going to go over everything with a wire wheel and repaint everything. All of the moving parts were lubed and didn't rust so no worries on the function on it.

Good to know that they're available so inexpensively though. I would have figured parts would be an arm and a leg.

Rory McCanuck said:
And for $150? A bottle in his stocking might not be out of order.
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Yeah, I'm not much of a gift giver, but he's been good to me, he put his retirement off so I could finish my apprenticeship and after giving me a deal like this so close to Christmas he's getting a good present.
 
H4831 said:
Most of the north American loading charts show less powder now, than they did in the 1950s, or even 1960s for a given load, and to add to the confusion, they state the same velocity, even with less powder.
But this is a myth.
If a modern loading book shows less powder than one in 1950-60, then it will have less velocity than does the heavier charge shown in the 50-60 chart.
Click to expand...


I have heard this fairly often. I would love to get a hold of some of those older books just for camparison sakes. If anyone knows where to find any please let me know...
 
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