You won't see a draw for whitetail, they are a hardy and prolific breeder, unlike sheep. Sheep are more susceptible to disease and are not resilient like the whitetail, nor as intelligent....generally don't see 200 class whitetail licking salt off the highways. If the government has a difficult time to manage sheep then they have to manage hunters.
Trophy Hunting
- Thread starter sheephunter
- Start date
I think that pretty well sums things up.
You think a draw will make sheep grow bigger horns? Just so you are aware, there is currently no population concerns with Bighorns in Alberta, like there are with the other animals on a draw, which is why they implemented the draw. It was also proven that in areas where there was a ewe cull that rams had more success. Why not try more of that?
Again with this? How many deer get hit by vehicles in a given year compared to sheep? Also, please explain how whitetail deer are more hardy than Bighorns.
A good idea Medvedqc. Sorry for my part in the derailment.
.............and biologists know a hell of a lot more than you, and that sums that up. Draws were conducted this year for mule deer bow hunters and it will occur for bighorn rams as well......its a matter of time.
Well thanks to the dedication of some sheep hunters and AGMAG groups, it's an option that's off the table for the foreseeable future. What will happen in a matter of time is certainly open to speculation. It's more the immediate future that I'm concerned with.
I'm a conservationist for all wildlife not for special groups who only lookout for themselves or one particular species. Yes whitetail is my favorite to hunt however I care for the welfare of all wildlife, not the welfare of hunters.
Glad to hear we share something in common. The nice thing is that it's pretty easy to look after the interests of both with proper management. Nice that there are so many people and groups holding the Government to that principle, as they seem to forget it occasionally.
What I find happens when you speak for other people is that you typically get it wrong...case in point with you speaking for me here. I see good management as a healthy balance of managing wildlife, habitat, hunters, other users and other social factors. Managing only hunters seems a bit short sighted and ineffective to me.
I stand correct because that is the practice of government today, is to manage hunters. Obviously your habitat theory, so you say, is not seriously looked upon by government otherwise there would of been burns. It appears that your main objective is sheep, now that is short sightedness. Once there are draws for rams you and others will have to sacrifice the waiting time or hunt elsewhere in another province, territory or country.............bon chance!
I'll be long past my sheep hunting days before we see a draw in Alberta and as I've said, this isn't about me...it's the future generations that I worry about. Not everyone can afford the cost of an out of Alberta sheep hunt so I don't really see that as an option. I'd rather see them be able to hunt a healthy and vibrant population here. That's the direction being pushed for anyhow.
Y'know, I don't so much have issue with a VERY limited number of tags being auctioned off for fundraising, that particular money-maker has been used to good effect for a few years in many jurisdictions.
I just don't see draws making any difference whatsoever to horn quality.
And since the discussion of trophy quality (ie:horns) is being driven by complaints from outfitters, I have less sympathy.
Just because their clientele is driven by the 'bigger than the last guy got' theory, that seems prevalent in the, well, for lack of a better word, competitive drive to have bigger and better than Joe down the street got, is not reason for us to give up opportunities for the betterment of the outfitter's bottom line.
IMO, short of going full bore stupid on, essentially, farming these animals, we limit out on potentially a few possibilities that can actually improve the herd's horns, and they are mostly it seems, related to habitat improvements, and making sure that there is some turnover of the herd to keep the new blood hitting the ground in the good years.
All else, we already have(size limits, penalties, etc.) One thing that has come up in the past, within my earshot, is the total lack of flexibility of the enforcement. Guys that would not say poo, quietly discussing so and so and his having to quietly bolt outta the neighborhood when he could not find the horn tips that got broken off during his ram's fall down the slope. It was legal before it was shot. The choice is lose your truck, gear, and hunting privileges when you turn yourself in, or risk same if you get caught doing a runner. Or maybe, you slink outta there without getting caught. Tough choice.
I know of another gent that spent two days on a scree slope to find the tips of his ram. Wasn't coming off the mountain without them.
Too much emphasis on being bigger, IMO. Make the trip up into their range, successfully harvest a legal ram, it's a trophy, IMO.
Are we looking for wildlife management, or a horn farm?
Cheers
Trev
Just curious how you know that?
Sorry. That was my impression, from the article.
I feel only a little more sympathy for the non-outfitters.
Keep taking the biggest out, they get smaller on average. And this surprises folks why?
I do agree though, that habitat can be manipulated to push the horn size potential up, but at what cost, and to whose benefit? IMO, the enthusiasts pay out, and the outfitters profit most.
Overall, Trophy quality is pretty darn far down on any list of priorities that are important to me for any species. More so for other folks, it seems.
I would rather see opportunities available, than have them shut off for the end benefit, mainly, of very few.
Cheers
Trev
Festa says the problem with the supposed decrease in horn size will lead to outfitters having troubles selling their tags for 35K. Is that really a problem though?
Also, it seems that all of the proposed changes wouldn't have an effect on outfitters, shortened season, draw and extending wait periods. However, a full curl rule would have am effect on their success rates as they are harder to come by.
I'm not saying that a full curl rule is needed province wide, but IF there are areas with a problem with numbers of mature rams, a full curl rule would have 0 effect on hunting opportunity. The full curl rule has been good in WMU 400.
Another problem I see is that all these proposed changes are province wide, why is that? I'm sure you've been all over this province and know that there is a great diversity between SMA and WMU's. Maybe if there is a problem with a specific area they could look into what would help that part of the province out? Maybe transplanting from Cadomin and some burns? There is a lot pile of options before a draw should even be considered.
