Your load development process

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cheier

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I'm curious as to what some of you guys do. I'm planning on developing 308 loads for a couple rifles, which I know will have quite different load requirements for best accuracy. In general though, if you are trying to develop a load, what do you guys do?

I've got 180 grain Nosler Partition and 168 grain Sierra Match King bullets that I'm using CCI BR2 primers with and Varget powder, and I'm trying to figure out an optimal strategy for load development with these two bullets for two different rifles. I'm thinking of target testing through a crony to get both the bullet velocities and test accuracy, but I'm not sure what best practices might be for the following:

From minimum loading, how much do you typically increment each set of rounds (0.3 grains, 0.5 grains, etc.)?
How many rounds do you load at each charge (3, 5, etc.)?
 
Armored Metal said:
I load 5 rounds per load in .5gr increments.
Click to expand...

Ditto. Beginning with the starting load for the particular bullet weight and increase by 0.5gr to near max recommended load keeping an eye out for over-pressure signs the closer you get to max. Chances are your best groupings will fall somewhere in between.
 
I start at 10% below max and work up in 1% increments, so if i start at 24 grains powder, im working up .3 grain at a set of 3 till i find what it likes.
 
I loaded a few hundred of the starting load. I figure when I plateau in terms of accuracy I'll develop the load further. Right now I suck too much to notice any real difference.
 
Starting load work up .5 gr at a time and load up 5 rounds of each. I seat the bullets to touch the lands because this will have max pressure and show pressure signs sooner. Once I find the load that shoots the tightest group, this range session is done. I use this as a starting point to find the seating depth that this load/bullet/barrel likes.

Next range session I have the powder charge that I want to work on. I load up 5 rounds each of this load with bullets seated .005" off the lands working back to .040" off the lands .005" at a time.

I use one target and with one aiming mark and move my sights in a 6 minute box. 3 MOA up and right and shoot a group. Come 3 minutes right to my wind zero and shoot a group, move sights 3 minutes right and shoot a group. Down 3 minutes (100 yard zero) and shoot a group. Move 3 minutes left(wind zero and 100 yard zero) shoot a group. 3 Minutes left, shoot a group. Down 3 minutes shoot, right 3 minutes shoot right another 3 minutes and shoot. This allows me to shoot 9 groups on one target and makes it easy to compare group size at a glance.
 
The best improvement i found was to put away the Varget powder,( to much variation from lot to lot ) and get working with the Reloader serie, R-15 and R-17 are very equal between batches and always give you more with less... For me now the 308 is based on those 2 powders and results are stellars and uniforms... In my book that is... JP.
 
Load development depends on many variables.

One- who manufactured it or is it a custom chambered rifle? They may be chambered for the same cartridge as the person that gives you a pet load but not all chambers are created equal.

Two- What level of accuracy/velocity will you be satisfied with??

Three- How consistent are your components????

Here's how I do it.

First I put together a dummy round. This is done by seating your desired bullet into a sized, unprimed, empty case.

Set up your seating die so that the bullet will just seat in the case.

Check out the length of your magazine well etc with the dummy round. Using a felt pen, mark the dummy round where the mag well ends.

Take the dummy back to your press/seating die and adjust the seat rod down enough so that your dummy round will fit.

Now, place the dummy round into the well and see if it will feed into the chamber and if the bolt will close on it. If it does, that's your useable OAL case length. If the bolt won't close easily on the dummy, take it back to the seating die, mark the ogive with a felt pen, all the way around. Then set the seating rod a bit deeper. Repeat this process until the dummy cartridge chambers and the bolt closes on it easily. If you see marks on the ogive, set the seating rod about .010in deeper and you won't have any chambering issues under inclement conditions.

This is a very important part of the reloading process. If this isn't done properly, it won't matter a darn what load you're using.

The dummy cartridge will also enable you to check how straight your dies are. Yes, dies can be made off true alignment. I even had a Hornady press that had the mount hole tapped out of alignment. Hornady replaced it without question, paid shipping both ways and threw in a set of dies for my trouble. Stand up company.

Now for the nitty gritty. Exact charges in intermediate cases like the 308W aren't nearly as critical as many believe, especially with heavy bullets.

one tenth grain one way or the other won't even be noticed accuracy wise nor will the slight difference even register on a chronograph.

Half grain increments are another story.

You also need to determine the twist rate of your barrel. It may have a twist rate that is to slow to stabilize longer bullets.

IMHO, starting at the lowest recommended point is a waste of good components. Especially if you're reloading commercial components.

If you're reloading military surplus components, suggested starting loads are a good place to start.

Often, suggested to mid level loads tend to be very accurate. Sometimes, accuracy improves as you increase powder charges or step up to magnum primers. I use magnum primers for everything. Just simplifies everything and keeps everything very consistent at all temperatures.

Usually, my first forming loads are right in the middle of the suggested range. The next reloads, will be at about 75% of the range. If accuracy is acceptable the velocity levels are about as close as they are going to get to the max suggested load anyway. This is also where the sweet spot normally resides and it is also where the differences between manufacturing lots of components seem to behave properly, without having to start all over again.

The new powders that have come onto the market recently are extremely consistent from batch to batch and this makes life much easier.

If you seem to be getting the odd flyer in almost every group, add another grain of powder to your load. It most often is the easiest fix for consistent ignition.

At this point, it's time to assess your primers. Are they cratering or punching through??? A bit of cratering is normal. Flattening primers is also normal, to a point. As long as they aren't trying to flow out of their pockets your pressures are in the right range.

One thing to be very critical of is light firing pin strikes. This is readily evident by a shallow dimple in the fired primer. Light primer strikes are the bane of a hunters accuracy. To much lube can and will cause this condition, especially in cold weather.

Sometimes people will take a few coils off the firing pin spring when adjusting their trigger let offs to make trigger pulls lighter. Then, you will need a new spring.

I'm mentioning these things because I've seen more than one shooter, even experienced ones, decrying flyers and inconsistent accuracy.

When a firearm has a to light firing pin spring, it causes inconsistent ignition and this results in poor performance of otherwise good components.

This can go on for a long time before it is caught. Milspec primers often won't ignite consistently or not at all in commercial rifles because they are just to hard.

Just remember, hunting components are much better than they used to be but they are not match components, except the Hornady SST offerings, which are very close. Do not poo minute of angle accuracy or slightly more. At the normal hunting ranges that is more than acceptable.

Now, the rifle has to be able to consistently use the fine new components your are feeding it. As long as you do your part, all should be satisfactory. Proper torqueing of the bedding screws, clean barrels, decent scopes with little or no parallax all make life much easier and spare you a lot of valuable time sighting in when you should be able to trust your rifle and ammo to do their part when you do yours.

When you've got it all together, you will spend less time at the loading bench and less time on the shooting bench but much more time practicing in the field at various ranges, using different shooting rests and positions.

There is no magic in putting together good components to become reliable accurate loads. The magic comes when you take your first deer with your own handloads. All it takes, is to keep things clean and be careful and observant when handloading.

One thing many guys do, is they leave the sizing lube on the cases when they set the loaded cartridge aside. Clean up those cases as soon as they are sized. I use a hand held priming device, rather than the press to seat primers. I can feel the seating depths easier this way. This way, I can clean the sized brass in hot soapy water and rinse with hot clear water. By the time I get back to the loading bench, everything is dry.

Cases with lube attract all kinds of crud. Especially if carried loose in your pockets. I watched a fellow on Wednesday that had trouble getting his cartridges out of his stock bandolier. He was tardy cleaning off the sizing lube and they were frozen into the loops. They were also hanging up while chambering. The freezing wind at -16C turned the stuff into a cement like substance.

OVERALL, just be careful at every step. It will all come together and after you shoot your first handloaded round, you will feel much more relaxed and far more confident.

Keep it fun though. Remember, those suggested loads can be played with to a point. They are after all suggested and are modified for use in a wide range of chambers.

If you're only loading for one rifle with a particular set of dies, think seriously about partial resizing of your brass. Not just the neck but part way down the shoulder as well. This will extend the life of your brass and keep headspace at a minimum.
 
Stevebot-7 said:
I loaded a few hundred of the starting load. I figure when I plateau in terms of accuracy I'll develop the load further. Right now I suck too much to notice any real difference.
Click to expand...

I would suggest, loading 5 or 10 rounds at the starting load, then 5-10 at an increased load (the increase should vary depending on the case size, eg. smaller cases like .223 I would increase by .2-.3gr and bigger cases you can make the jump of the increase larger, like .5gr). Continue doing these sets of increased loads up to the max load listed, in many cases you can go much past max load, but I don't suggest doing this until you are very experienced in knowing and recognizing pressure signs, and know where to stop.
Then head to the range, shoot a group or two, of 5 shot groups at 100 yards or more. Take your time, don't let the barrel heat up too much. Concentrate on repeating your shot sequence the same every time, trigger pull, grip on rifle, everything like that maters when shooting groups.
Then try your next hotter load load, same thing, and so on and so on. You will find a load that groups better than the others. Then load those loads to practice and perfect your technique.
An important step to all this is to check your case after each hotter round, for primer flattening, bolt starts to get stiff to open, etc. These are pressure signs, and a good indication of where not to try the next hotter load. (do some reading online, or in reloading manuals to familiarize yourself with these signs)

I am suggesting this because you are claiming that you "suck too much" to shoot better. It has been my experience, and I'm sure several will agree, you can become very frustrated and falsely thing you "suck" when it is actually the load you are shooting that simply will not group. If you are loading up a few hundred rounds of a load that will only shoot 3-4" groups @ 100 yards, plus throw in shooter error, you will never start thinking that you are capable of shooting good groups. Try different loads, hotter loads, different bullets, different bullet seating depths, etc. Unless there is something grossly wrong with your rifle/scope you will find loads that group much better than other loads.



For the question in the OP.
I usually use the method I have described to Stevebot, I vary the charge weigh in increasing amounts and shoot 5 shot groups, usually at 100 yards. When I find the best grouping load(s), I then use that powder charge and start to vary the bullet seating depth. Started at touching the lands (or max magazine length, if I'm loading hunting loads), and decrease the seating depth by .010" or so in 5 shot sets and same procedure, shoot 5 shot groups and pick the best one as my load. All of this refers to sticking with the same powder type, primer and bullet type and weight. When you switch something out, the whole process starts over.
I venture away from this procedure in my 7STW due to its barrel burning capabilities. I use the ladder method for finding loads in it, many because it requires a lot less rounds to settle on a load. You could burn up half the STW's barrel life trying loads the traditional method.

**Edit** I forgot to add, when testing loads, document everything in your loading manual, including range conditions, most importantly air temp for the day. Some powders are very temperature sensitive and the load may change dramatically in different temps.
You can download several good "blank" reloading logs, and you fill in the blanks. Without documenting, you will surely forget something and won't be able to accurately repeat the load at a later date.
 
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bearhunter said:
Load development depends on many variables.

One- who manufactured it or is it a custom chambered rifle? They may be chambered for the same cartridge as the person that gives you a pet load but not all chambers are created equal.

Two- What level of accuracy/velocity will you be satisfied with??

Three- How consistent are your components????

Here's how I do it.

First I put together a dummy round. This is done by seating your desired bullet into a sized, unprimed, empty case.

Set up your seating die so that the bullet will just seat in the case.

Check out the length of your magazine well etc with the dummy round. Using a felt pen, mark the dummy round where the mag well ends.

Take the dummy back to your press/seating die and adjust the seat rod down enough so that your dummy round will fit.

Now, place the dummy round into the well and see if it will feed into the chamber and if the bolt will close on it. If it does, that's your useable OAL case length. If the bolt won't close easily on the dummy, take it back to the seating die, mark the ogive with a felt pen, all the way around. Then set the seating rod a bit deeper. Repeat this process until the dummy cartridge chambers and the bolt closes on it easily. If you see marks on the ogive, set the seating rod about .010in deeper and you won't have any chambering issues under inclement conditions.

This is a very important part of the reloading process. If this isn't done properly, it won't matter a darn what load you're using.

The dummy cartridge will also enable you to check how straight your dies are. Yes, dies can be made off true alignment. I even had a Hornady press that had the mount hole tapped out of alignment. Hornady replaced it without question, paid shipping both ways and threw in a set of dies for my trouble. Stand up company.

Now for the nitty gritty. Exact charges in intermediate cases like the 308W aren't nearly as critical as many believe, especially with heavy bullets.

one tenth grain one way or the other won't even be noticed accuracy wise nor will the slight difference even register on a chronograph.

Half grain increments are another story.

You also need to determine the twist rate of your barrel. It may have a twist rate that is to slow to stabilize longer bullets.

IMHO, starting at the lowest recommended point is a waste of good components. Especially if you're reloading commercial components.

If you're reloading military surplus components, suggested starting loads are a good place to start.

Often, suggested to mid level loads tend to be very accurate. Sometimes, accuracy improves as you increase powder charges or step up to magnum primers. I use magnum primers for everything. Just simplifies everything and keeps everything very consistent at all temperatures.

Usually, my first forming loads are right in the middle of the suggested range. The next reloads, will be at about 75% of the range. If accuracy is acceptable the velocity levels are about as close as they are going to get to the max suggested load anyway. This is also where the sweet spot normally resides and it is also where the differences between manufacturing lots of components seem to behave properly, without having to start all over again.

The new powders that have come onto the market recently are extremely consistent from batch to batch and this makes life much easier.

If you seem to be getting the odd flyer in almost every group, add another grain of powder to your load. It most often is the easiest fix for consistent ignition.

At this point, it's time to assess your primers. Are they cratering or punching through??? A bit of cratering is normal. Flattening primers is also normal, to a point. As long as they aren't trying to flow out of their pockets your pressures are in the right range.

One thing to be very critical of is light firing pin strikes. This is readily evident by a shallow dimple in the fired primer. Light primer strikes are the bane of a hunters accuracy. To much lube can and will cause this condition, especially in cold weather.

Sometimes people will take a few coils off the firing pin spring when adjusting their trigger let offs to make trigger pulls lighter. Then, you will need a new spring.

I'm mentioning these things because I've seen more than one shooter, even experienced ones, decrying flyers and inconsistent accuracy.

When a firearm has a to light firing pin spring, it causes inconsistent ignition and this results in poor performance of otherwise good components.

This can go on for a long time before it is caught. Milspec primers often won't ignite consistently or not at all in commercial rifles because they are just to hard.

Just remember, hunting components are much better than they used to be but they are not match components, except the Hornady SST offerings, which are very close. Do not poo minute of angle accuracy or slightly more. At the normal hunting ranges that is more than acceptable.

Now, the rifle has to be able to consistently use the fine new components your are feeding it. As long as you do your part, all should be satisfactory. Proper torqueing of the bedding screws, clean barrels, decent scopes with little or no parallax all make life much easier and spare you a lot of valuable time sighting in when you should be able to trust your rifle and ammo to do their part when you do yours.

When you've got it all together, you will spend less time at the loading bench and less time on the shooting bench but much more time practicing in the field at various ranges, using different shooting rests and positions.

There is no magic in putting together good components to become reliable accurate loads. The magic comes when you take your first deer with your own handloads. All it takes, is to keep things clean and be careful and observant when handloading.

One thing many guys do, is they leave the sizing lube on the cases when they set the loaded cartridge aside. Clean up those cases as soon as they are sized. I use a hand held priming device, rather than the press to seat primers. I can feel the seating depths easier this way. This way, I can clean the sized brass in hot soapy water and rinse with hot clear water. By the time I get back to the loading bench, everything is dry.

Cases with lube attract all kinds of crud. Especially if carried loose in your pockets. I watched a fellow on Wednesday that had trouble getting his cartridges out of his stock bandolier. He was tardy cleaning off the sizing lube and they were frozen into the loops. They were also hanging up while chambering. The freezing wind at -16C turned the stuff into a cement like substance.

OVERALL, just be careful at every step. It will all come together and after you shoot your first handloaded round, you will feel much more relaxed and far more confident.

Keep it fun though. Remember, those suggested loads can be played with to a point. They are after all suggested and are modified for use in a wide range of chambers.

If you're only loading for one rifle with a particular set of dies, think seriously about partial resizing of your brass. Not just the neck but part way down the shoulder as well. This will extend the life of your brass and keep headspace at a minimum.
Click to expand...

great post bearhunter, thank you!

new to reloading and developed loads for my 270 and 204. working up, and found a descent grouping. reproduced the loads and have taken some critters. but i'm sure i can do better.

is there anything you(or any one) can add to the above post? i ask because i'm going to resupply this week and do it all again.

thank you
 
I am gonna jump on the ladder test method for this thread.

I started using this method and it works.Also no need for wasting time with a chronograph until you settle on your load to do a final test/sight-in.This method saves a tremendous amount of time and components.One load per charge and you will see accuracy nodes where the load likes the barrel harmonics. then you can focus on that charge.Here is one of my tests:



You can see what your rifle likes in very few shots.In 11 shots you can see where the rifle had a sweet spot.Then do your 5 shot groups from there to pick your final load and do chrono testing.

Another thing I find useful is pick an OAL and stick with it, unless you are going to be ultra fine tuning for target or competition.Your pressure changes that happen from seating depth changes will also change from powder charges.Change as very few variables at a time as possible.

Final, repetition and consistency on your load prep.
 
Kelly,
What cartridge are you testing if those are your powder measurements on the target? 90+ grains is a big case.

I didn't get into the explanation of the ladder test in my post, but you have nailed it in a nutshell.
I like using it, like I was saying, especially in the bigger cartridges.

Also, to add to bearhunters very good post. Cleaning the lube off of cases after resizing no only reduces the risk of freezing, and from dirt and debris sticking to the lube left on the case, but it is important to remove the lube because when a case is fired, it expands starting at the base of the case, and the expansion moves forward towards the mouth as the powder ignites. This expansion not only seals the case to the wall of the chamber, but it also "grips" the chamber walls. Leaving the cases with lube on them can allow the case to slide in the chamber when fired, which will result in false pressure signs to show up, as well as putting additional strain on the bolt locking lugs.
 
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Ladder tests for me too, although I shoot twice each powder charge, at two targets side by side. Reduces the chance of a flyer giving me a false result.

I found that some bullet/powder combos just won't form a good ladder. For example, my 308 with Varget and 175gr looks like a shotgun pattern. Switch for N140, and voila! Perfect ladder.
 
That is for a 338LM, I have used this method for others but that test there shows wide definition of the differences and what can show up.It is just a nice example.

No way I am going to go .5 or .3 grain increments and do batch testing when there is 90+grains of powder per charge. :)

Fire306 said:
Kelly,
What cartridge are you testing if those are your powder measurements on the target? 90+ grains is a big case.

I didn't get into the explanation of the ladder test in my post, but you have nailed it in a nutshell.
I like using it, like I was saying, especially in the bigger cartridges.

Also, to add to bearhunters very good post. Cleaning the lube off of cases after resizing no only reduces the risk of freezing, and from dirt and debris sticking to the lube left on the case, but it is important to remove the lube because when a case is fired, it expands starting at the base of the case, and the expansion moves forward towards the mouth as the powder ignites. This expansion not only seals the case to the wall of the chamber, but it also "grips" the chamber walls. Leaving the cases with lube on them can allow the case to slide in the chamber when fired, which will result in false pressure signs to show up, as well as putting additional strain on the bolt locking lugs.
Click to expand...
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
That is for a 338LM, I have used this method for others but that test there shows wide definition of the differences and what can show up.It is just a nice example.

No way I am going to go .5 or .3 grain increments and do batch testing when there is 90+grains of powder per charge. :)
Click to expand...

I agree, I jump in 1gr increments in the STW as well. Once I find a good node, then I may try the 1/2gr in between for groups. Then I start changing the seating depths as I discussed in my previous post.
The ladder test is a great quick method to find accurate nodes.
 
Thanks for the great posts guys. A lot for me to sift through.

Just for reference sake, the 2 rifles I'm developing for are (both 308 Win):

Tikka T3 Lite SS - 1:11 twist rate - 22 7/16" barrel
Kel Tec RFB - 1:11.25 twist rate - 18" barrel

Loads for both will be to max length that will fit in the magazine. I was going to make a dummy round or two for each bullet to determine max length. I was going to start at 39 grains of Varget, but I'm thinking of starting at 40 grains and working up in 0.5 grain increments, but I am curious about that ladder approach.
 
A ladder test needs to have some distance to the target in order to be effective, I find that 200 is a good start.

Load 10 rounds of your lowest charge just to have on hand to get on target or less if you know you already are of course.

I use either my rifle scope or a spotting scope to spot the shots and put them on a reference sheet of my target while I shoot so I don't run back and forth to the target marking loads.

After 5 shots or so you will ease into the method and will become very comfortable doing it.I was hesitant the first time until I actually saw the ladder forming.

cheier said:
Thanks for the great posts guys. A lot for me to sift through.

Just for reference sake, the 2 rifles I'm developing for are (both 308 Win):

Tikka T3 Lite SS - 1:11 twist rate - 22 7/16" barrel
Kel Tec RFB - 1:11.25 twist rate - 18" barrel

Loads for both will be to max length that will fit in the magazine. I was going to make a dummy round or two for each bullet to determine max length. I was going to start at 39 grains of Varget, but I'm thinking of starting at 40 grains and working up in 0.5 grain increments, but I am curious about that ladder approach.
Click to expand...
 
Fire306 said:
Kelly,
What cartridge are you testing if those are your powder measurements on the target? 90+ grains is a big case.

I didn't get into the explanation of the ladder test in my post, but you have nailed it in a nutshell.
I like using it, like I was saying, especially in the bigger cartridges.

Also, to add to bearhunters very good post. Cleaning the lube off of cases after resizing no only reduces the risk of freezing, and from dirt and debris sticking to the lube left on the case, but it is important to remove the lube because when a case is fired, it expands starting at the base of the case, and the expansion moves forward towards the mouth as the powder ignites. This expansion not only seals the case to the wall of the chamber, but it also "grips" the chamber walls. Leaving the cases with lube on them can allow the case to slide in the chamber when fired, which will result in false pressure signs to show up, as well as putting additional strain on the bolt locking lugs.
Click to expand...


During the fireing sequence the case expands first at the weakest point: the neck, where the brass is thinnest.
The brass irons its self onto the chamber wall from case mouth to base. This is why not having a proper headspace in a rifle is so critical. The forward section of the case is firmly held into position untill the pressure builds to the point that case/brass alloy starts to yield to the building pressure and the case head slides back to the bolt face. Thus thinning just above the case head web area. ( Consequently, this is the only part of the case that normally doesnt expand and hold onto the chamber walls).


A cartridge case is a single pressure chamber and will always expand at the weakest point first. Neck area, then to any other area thats not adequately supported. Pressure of the expanding gasses is equal on all internal surfaces of a fireing case.

Case lube will definitely hinder a cases ability to adhere to the chamber walls. This can cause the firing case to slam against the bolt face. This will give you those "false pressure signs" you were refferring to absolutely. It will cause more impact on the locking lugs than there should be. The case head gets a run at the bolt face so to speak.

But if your "headspace" and "case head clearance" are within proper specs, this shouldnt cause anything more than some lube dents on your cases.

Keep your cases clean is always sound advice.
Feeding issues definitely crop up as well! I used to over lube a semi auto BAR. When it was -25 or colder, it was no longer a semi auto rifle! Lol! You live and learn I guess!

This is a good thread guys! Keep the good info flowing!
 
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